Educating Vegans @ Cube of Truth - Anonymous for the Voiceless in Berlin, Germany

Watch on YouTube · 2019-05-19 · 32 min

[video] 0:00 I've never went with something so slow.

0:18 Yeah, it's a bit uncomfortable to see live, but it's nice seeing it.

0:29 So what's your whole argument against veganism, right? Well, it's because you can't get over 50 nutrients from plants. That's really the main thing. And we also wrote, because there's babies dying, like recently also quite a lot of babies have died. So they're showing footage of animals being killed and they're killing babies. It's just ridiculous. What are the main nutrients you can't get from a vegan diet? Vitamin A, two B6 versions, B12, D, F, K2. And then there's just a whole discussion of can you convert this and blah, blah, blah. Right. And I have a lot of proof in my videos that you can't. Vitamin A has never been measured in vegans. Vitamin D, I'm pretty sure. Vitamin A isn't an essential nutrient though, is it? It is. What do you mean, vitamin A? You would die without it.

[video] 1:21 But beta carotene is good for you.

1:22 Right. And that's the thing. When I was in the UK, I was showing a study that 50% of UK women have this genetic mutation that they can't convert it, and the vegans are just like, one, even like, hit it off the hand, that they don't want to listen, that they don't want to hear that it's unhealthy. But there's no proof that vegans are deficient, by the way. It hasn't been studied at all, so... But there's no, like, proven medical cases. Yeah, right, because it hasn't been studied. If it would, I'm sure that they would find out. Right.

1:52 To even check vitamin A, like here in Germany, you've got to pay a lot to even check it, because it's not something that's generally checked, so it's tricky.

[video] 2:01 What interests me is how come that we are standing here in the light.

2:05 It's not like you die without macronutrients. You just slowly degenerate, which is what happens to vegans. They get digestive issues. Do you have proof of that? Do you have studies? No, I don't have studies, because I interview ex-vegans, so many of them are sick. I don't call it anecdotal because that implies that it's like a joke basically, which it's not because these people literally get sick and almost die.

[video] 2:28 For instance, I can say anything. I can say that I tried eating raw meat and almost died.

2:31 Yeah, of course you can. But I'm just saying I've interviewed so many ex-vegans that it's not a coincidence that they get sick. And they do like a perfect whole foods plant-based supplemented diet.

[video] 2:40 So basically you've done your own study, is that what you want to say? Yeah. So in fact there are a lot of vegans who've grown to a very, very high age being really healthy. The longest are the fish eaters. There are vegans in the study, right?

3:00 Yeah, yeah, I know. I know. They were the longest living. No, fish eaters. I actually had a debate with Vegan Gains. Yeah, I watched it. And he also admitted it. He checked if it was the fish eaters.

[video] 3:12 No, like I don't want to deny at all that you can be healthy while having like a small percentage of animal products in your diet. If I do have that choice, why would I make the cruel one? Would I want animals to die if I don't have to?

3:24 It's just that I was vegan myself. I was hospitalized. How long have you been vegan for? I was only five months. After one month, I couldn't work out. I was so weak. Some people who haven't ate a good diet their whole life, they fail really quick. Some who ate pretty good, they can go for years.

[video] 3:38 I have not experienced that with myself. I've not experienced that with friends of mine who've been vegan for actually decades. What is interesting to me... How many decades? So 15, 20 years.

3:50 Is that long enough? It's very long. I met somebody who was vegan for like 21 years and she had five cancers and couldn't move anymore out of the bed.

[video] 3:58 I've met people who've been carnists for 10 years, had cancer. That's anecdotal.

4:07 It's not somebody who eats raw bone marrow. Yeah, exactly.

[video] 4:11 It's somebody who eats like... What I'm trying to get at is there's a difference between correlation. and like something causing another thing. And I don't really see that as true.

4:22 I don't know anybody sick who eats only meat or like 90% meat. Most people who are meat eaters eat duna. Duna is like 70% plants.

[video] 4:30 What did inspire you to come up to vegan protests and eat raw animal flesh?

4:35 That's just what I eat in general. I've never actually been to Anonymous for Voices.

[video] 4:41 I just wanted to try it. So what inspired you today?

4:45 It's just because we are in Berlin. Yeah, because a lot of people think you can't eat raw meat. So then they see, oh wow, that's weird.

[video] 4:51 You want to use this as a conversational opener, right? Isn't it because you want to offend us?

4:55 I don't like that you're spreading it because I really believe that people get sick from it. What do you mean, what are we spreading? It's malnutrition. because there's over 50 nutrients you can get.

[video] 5:06 What we're spreading on the screens actually is just standard practice from animal industries.

5:10 Well, if you mean factory farming, I'm also against it. I'm not against it because I believe it's morally wrong because the animals are unhealthy. I don't eat them anyway.

[video] 5:17 So in fact, then you should be in support of us.

5:19 Yeah, but you're still kind of pushing people to go vegan.

[video] 5:22 What you're seeing here is we're just showing people what's happening in animal industries. And then we're having a Socratic approach. But it's still a vegan movement. So why not talk to people actually? I have my point of view, like I don't talk about that at all or really rarely, rarely. I just ask questions and what I found is that most people, they don't like seeing this or paying for this to happen. Wouldn't you agree?

[video] 5:50 that you wanted to inspire people to become vegan with this movement. With this movement? You checked my Facebook page? No, no. I checked the page where you advertised the event here. And you said that you want to do this event to inspire people to become vegan. Maybe not you personally, but the advertising page. No, I personally, I do want to inspire people to go vegan. So I think one of the big misunderstandings between meat eaters and vegans is that both meat eaters and vegans are actually both against factory farming. We all know that it's bad for the animals, it's also bad for the humans, because when we eat unhealthy animals, we also become unhealthy. But the solution to ban factory farming for us is not to ban meat, But to ban factory farming and to return to a decentralized farming where there's individual small farms that produce high quality products. Organic farming basically.

[video] 6:46 So would you also say, when you're saying that you're against factory farming, would you also say that you're against unnecessary death and unnecessary cruelty? Eating animals includes death and cruelty. But wouldn't you say that you disagree with unnecessary cruelty and unnecessary death? And I'm living proof that eating animals is unnecessary because I'm standing here. I'm still alive. I haven't died yet. I'm not nutrient deficient. Vegans can't absorb certain vitamins.

[video] 7:33 I don't believe in evolution necessarily, but pretty much. I just believe that we are humans who are

7:54 Like every animal who's supposed to eat a certain diet, and that's it. So that's who we always have been. I don't believe that we evolved from apes or whatever. You don't think so? So you don't believe in science? I do, but that's not science. It's just a fairy tale. It has zero proof.

[video] 8:08 Interesting. Interesting, man. What do you think is your main argument? It's just that veganism is non-nutritional.

8:22 My main argument is that it's malnutrition. There are 15 nutrients.

[video] 8:26 And what are those nutrients?

8:28 I told you. Vitamin A, vitamin B, B6. B12, two of the B6s.

[video] 8:33 Do you think it's possible to be healthy on a vegan diet?

8:35 No. It's impossible because every animal only has one diet.

[video] 8:38 In terms of our diet though, even if it is unnatural and we rely on supplements, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad, right?

8:45 Everything natural is healthy. Everything unnatural is unhealthy. What about cyanide? It's not the natural human diet. The natural human diet, perfectly, it's all healthy. What would you say is the natural human diet? Yeah, it's what we eat in nature. Whatever we can find, raw meat. In summer we would find some fruit, maybe some berries. And whatever we can find. But not man-made stuff, so it doesn't be natural.

[video] 9:07 And you don't believe in the correlation between cholesterol-saturated fats and heart disease? Nobody even believes that nowadays.

9:13 I've never heard of anybody who eats mostly meat but has a heart attack. It just doesn't happen. People who get heart attacks eat like 60-70% carbs. This is what causes heart attacks. Because it's unnatural.

[video] 9:24 I will look into this pectin thing. Lactin. Lactin, okay. What I base my health knowledge on is like the longest running nutrition study ever done. The China study. Which is the China study. Yeah, but the book is a review and the review is wrong. The real China study is about a thousand pages. A lot of it is written in Chinese. There are other experts, not Dr. Campbell who is a vegan. Dr. Greger is an ethical vegan who abuses the data to say it's right to eat. So health aside, what about the ethical standpoint of it? The ethical standpoint, it's not really a point if you consider that animal foods are essential for human health in the long run. So it is only ethical to actually eat what you eat. But we don't have the natural instinct to run down and hunt.

[video] 10:24 I know. I definitely do. You see a deer and you start chasing it and you rip through it. Well, I know that a deer would outrun me if I don't have tools. I mean, I'm a human. I could make tools. I would love to go hunting, but it's so fucking expensive in this country that you can't afford it. If I see a smaller animal, I always go after it. Always. I've never seen somebody run after a small animal and bite into it. But let me ask you, are you growing your own crops, your legumes, your vegetables? No, you don't. Because we live in a society where only a very few amount of people are able to feed the whole population. So it's not an argument to say, well, you don't hunt your own food. Well, you don't grow your own food. Mmm, yummy. The plants are growing.

[video] 11:21 Let's watch it. Looks like yummy meat. Do you want to feed your babies with soy milk or something? then it goes wrong, because it is not food suitable for babies. And the reason why they do this may have different reasons. Maybe they are just mentally ill, I don't know. I mean, who feeds a baby salad and oatmeal?

[video] 11:51 I don't know. Or the mother can't give milk because she's a vegan herself and that's why she's malnourished and can't produce the milk, I don't know. But there are just dozens of cases where this has happened. And here, in any case, the hard tour is being tried to convert vegans. And that's why we're demonstrating a little against it. Because from our own experience, we mostly know how shit veganism is for people. I was vegan for one and a half years. We've been to the UK and there were people, little farms closing down. If vegans want to protest, I would say go to the factory farms. Go to where they grind those chickens. Well, I hope, yeah. But don't go to the little farms that are actually... doing a good job, whether you agree or not. If science shows that we can be healthy on a plant-based diet, then how do we justify you don't believe in science?

[video] 12:50 I have experienced myself that it's not the case. Why would I listen to science? I don't know what diet you've been eating. Isn't her experience more important than someone else's experience? Her experience shows her that she can't see. Of course, but for me, who am I supposed to trust? You can tell me anything, I can tell you anything. Exactly! Who are you supposed to trust? Only yourself! No! or the people that have studied thousands and thousands of sample sizes of people under controlled conditions. Okay, I would say then, yes, more and more people I meet are ex-vegans and they weren't doing too well, I tell you. I assume you feel better right now? Yeah. How long have you been vegan? About a year. Only after one and a half year I started to question, like, hey, I used to... start feeling really good on a vegan diet, but do I really, still? I do believe that on factory farms, people are that fucked up that they just kick them and stuff for fun.

[video] 13:49 I do believe that, yeah. Again, that's why you shouldn't support it. Why would you? Even, and that's the thing, like, you know about the raw meats and everything. You're not gonna eat raw meat that's fucked up and poisoned. You will. No way in hell. You will try it one day. Yeah, you will. I promise you. I promise you I'll never try it. Same. And they didn't want to listen and they didn't understand. They didn't see all those corpses hanging in the... I know this story. for my personal life. Right. How can I not see? It's like dead animals and it's normal and it's everywhere and how do they not understand? And I was crying. What changed your mind? So I found these videos and so at first I thought it was crazy then I looked at the a few other videos and I thought, hmm, he's actually onto something.

14:41 It's about raw meat, anti-vegan events in other places also.

[video] 14:46 Yeah, but you also have videos about vaccines for people and other stuff. The purpose of the demonstration is to inform people that veganism can be unhealthy if you're not informed properly?

15:00 No, it's generally unhealthy. It's a man-made diet. There's never been a vegan tribe, nothing. Nobody has ever tried veganism. It's an experiment on humans right now. And the outcome, from my experience, I interview ex-vegans, is that they all get sick, and some get really sick. And I really feel for the people who get really sick. How do you get your fiber? I don't. I don't. That's why I'm healthy.

[video] 15:23 What is it in German again? Ballaststoffe? That says everything. Yeah, right.

15:27 Ballaststoffe. Exactly. What does that mean? It's heavy in your gut. It's like ballast.

[video] 15:32 I remember having this gluten-free bread and it said, yeah, ballaststoffe. And I said, it almost sounds like it's a bad thing, you know? They thought it was unhealthy, actually. That's why they called it ballaststoffe. Ah, what was this? I don't know that.

15:47 And why did they think

[video] 15:48 no no animal can it's the bacteria because they have sure i don't know what the amounts are yeah i don't know why they thought this but that was the scientific consensus at the time and then it changed that's why today it is regarded as something you want to eat you actually believe for health reasons you have to eat animal product in some form

16:10 I think it's from the B12 deficiency, because you said he had other symptoms.

[video] 16:13 There is no alternative to real beef, for example. There's no, how can you be at tofu and not beef?

16:20 Taste-wise?

[video] 16:21 No, no, no. Taste-wise, I think the vegan industry is doing a pretty... good job I've eaten vegan bacon and I was like oh finally I can eat bacon again it was the only thing I missed I always said no oh how come I don't miss meat blah blah blah and I used to not eat fake meats at all until like after two years and I guess I started craving meat more and more you don't get the actual b12 from all the algae and all that other stuff It's not even bioavailable. Maybe if you inject it, hopefully it will do something. But then again, if you do the blood test results, yes, there will be B12. But is it real B12? Because it's a chemical component in your blood. And yes, it will swarm around because you took a pill or just like drugs will be in the system.

[video] 17:15 Do you want a stopwatch? Yes, please. Wow, that's insane. It tastes like heart. Does it have its own taste? Yes, once, but it's been a long time. Thank you very much. Where are you?

[video] 17:42 They're brainwashing the children.

[video] 18:06 Do you understand when I say, what if the animals had more space? You understand? So you said if they have more space, then they're not going to have food, then it's better. Yeah? So still, when they have more space, and then what has to happen for them to become food on the plate?

[video] 18:33 So, even if they have more space, you still have to do something to put it on the plate.

[video] 18:50 They said if the animals are not in a house and they have more space, then it's better. And I'm asking them what has to happen to the animals that have more space in order to become food on a plate. Could you ask them in German? What should happen to the animals so that they...

[video] 19:18 You have to be slaughtered. And then the organs have been taken out.

[video] 19:30 The bad pieces of meat will be thrown away and the good meat will be used. And so for the animal?

[video] 19:52 for the animal. Is that a beautiful thing?

[video] 20:06 To be healthy, you have to eat meat. And you should eat meat from healthy, happy animals. That's very important. Because these animals live long and they are doing well. They are doing much better than the animals shown here. Okay, now we have two different opinions and now we can discuss about it on the way. And you get a good piece of meat on the way, that's important.

[video] 20:25 Why was it important to you to teach them to hurt animals?

[video] 20:46 Oh, I didn't teach them to eat animals. What the hell did you say? Oh, he said that you had a different opinion. I had a different opinion, of course. What I was talking to them about. I believe meat is healthy because you need to eat meat to sustain your life. What about all the vegans who are thriving? I don't know any vegan who is thriving, to be honest. You can find many. You can find plenty. A lot of them, you know, they are lying. A lot of them haven't been doing it long. A lot of them are eating meat. Okay, so I should be dead. How long are you doing it? Six years. Six years. Yeah. Well, I don't want to be unfriendly, so I... No, I don't say anything bad right now, but I don't believe it is very healthy for you. You can't sustain on it. You need some animal vitamins. You're destroying your gut. Like, an honest look at your skin. I'm sorry, your skin is... People who eat meat can have bad skin. They can, they can. Because if they compare it with carbohydrates, it ferments in your gut, it destroys your gut lining and particles of the protein get in your bloodstream and get detoxed throughout the skin.

[video] 21:44 That's when you get pimples, eczema, whatever. And that happens with dairy as well. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and stress. Stress fucks up your digestion for sure. Yeah? But, yeah, fiber as well. But most, yeah, fiber is in plants, you know? Yeah, but skin problems are not specifically related to animal or vegan diets. There's many things that can affect skin health. To dairy, but not to meat. Yeah, it's just, no, not at all. Okay, so what's going on with your lips then? They're dry. They're dehydrated. Yeah, same as my skin. My lips are dry because I drink water a lot today and the weather is cold. Okay, so... Look at your face. I don't... It's all over. I'm sorry. It's like the same thing that's on your lips. No, my lips are just scabby. It's dry. It's dry skin. Okay. That's it. Whatever. I could make the same defenses about my skin. No, you can't. It's just not healthy. You see your spots.

[video] 22:44 It's inflamed. Yeah? Yeah. It's not the same. And every meat eater has perfect skin. Not every meat eater. I don't feel the need to attack each other's flaws. No, I don't need to. But I'm saying that... No, no, no, I know that. I'm just saying, you're eating meat and you're not having perfect skin. And I'm eating vegan and I'm not having perfect skin. Yeah, let's put that aside. Maybe that was a bit disrespectful, to be honest. No, it's fine. It's just not the point, right? Yeah, it's not the point. But what was your point again? Oh, my point was that I was in the middle of a conversation with them, and you came and interrupted. Because it's fucking brainwashing. So it's just automatically putting meat on a plate and not teaching your children where it comes from. You take kids to the apple orchard to learn how they get apples, but you don't take them to the slaughterhouse to learn how they get meat. You can tell them. You just don't have to show them these pictures. And actually, that's not every slaughterhouse.

[video] 23:44 They were fine, and they were with a guardian. And their guardian was okay with them watching. And they were, like, how old? Like, eight? Nine? Yeah, but I don't like the conclusion. You know, you tell them basically... I didn't tell them anything. I asked them open-ended questions. Yeah, and I told them that me does help. So you told them something. Yeah, I told them that. I didn't tell them anything. I asked them open-ended questions, and I let them think about it for themselves. And I let them answer, and you came and interrupted them. I didn't like that. I don't care. Sorry. I told them my opinion. That's it. It's brainwashing. They believe that everything comes from that and they believe that they don't have another option. Just automatically putting meat onto a child's plate is brainwashing them to believe that that's okay. What else should they eat? That's the most healthy food for them. Whole food, plant-based diet. Whole food, plant-based diet. Yeah. Look at the Blue Zone. Look at the China Study. The China Study. Oh, come on. Did you read the whole China Study? A thousand pages? No, I didn't. You just read the tiny book.

[video] 24:42 That's not a concrete summary of that. I've looked at tons of health studies, and the Blue Zones is not even a study, so there's no potential for bias. It's population data. Have you heard of it? Yeah, for sure. No society in human history has been on a vegan diet. So what does that have to do with the choices we have today? Veganism is simply unnatural in so many ways. It's like, you know, we are on top of the food chain. We are human beings. So some people would say that, like, exploiting others, like, sexually is natural.

[video] 25:25 What has that to do with that? Because it's natural. It's just saying because we have the option to think about things and make ethical choices based on like more than just natural or natural desires or natural urges. We don't always just act on like You know, in a predatory way. The difference is that we have an option. Like, when it comes to our health, we don't have an option. Because, you know, we have a digestive tract of a carnivore. That's our digestive tract. For sure. Okay. Have you seen the experiment? Like in the 30s or somewhere there, they put a piece of meat in the intestine of a human being. And it was just, after that it was dissolving into nothing. Because if we eat raw meat, or if we eat meat in general, there's no waste in our colon. That's why people who are on a low carb or zero carb diet, so to speak, they don't have to take shit. Because there's no waste, there's no fermentation, there's nothing.

[video] 26:24 You think not pooping is natural? No, like pooping, like tongues. Every animal. It's very unnatural. Just a little side, I see you're freezing. Yeah, I'm very cold. Yeah, you are. Do you want to go somewhere else where the wind is? No, it's okay. Yeah, it's okay. What I was going to say is that I was also freezing a lot when I was vegan. And... Right now you might not think this is related to veganism, but... I mean, I was cold when I was eating animals as well. It's not a comparison, really. But let me just tell you one thing about the digestive tract. It's very acidic. It's definitely acidic. It's very short. If you compare it to a herbivore, like a cow or any other animal, it's a short digestive tract. We can digest meat the best, raw meat, especially if you try it. Oh, sure. No, it's not for sure. Oh, for sure. You should try it. I would not.

[video] 27:19 Even if, let's say, it wasn't healthy, or it wasn't the healthiest diet, because we're so adaptable, and people live to be 100 on bacon, and people live to be 100 on plants, and people live to be 100 on all different diets. Not on vegan diets, for sure. There's many people who are living at 100 on vegan diets. Maybe. Are they? Not for their whole life, maybe the last years. No one. It's true that being vegan since birth is more of a new thing. Yeah, it kills people. So who's the oldest vegan since birth that I know?

[video] 27:58 I know someone who's vegan since birth and he's older than me. Yeah.

[video] 28:03 So we'll see. It's still not like 100, like super old, you know? Yeah, but we will be. We will be. You'll see. You'll see. Do you think that breast milk is healthy? For a baby, yes. You know that breast milk is made of cholesterol and saturated fat, right? Mmm... I don't know if I've ever, like, studied what breast milk is made of, so I can't comment. Okay, but when you do, you'll find out it's cholesterol and saturated fat. So if this saturated fat and cholesterol is so bad for us, then why we feed them or children? I can't answer to that because I don't, like, a lot of the facts you've been sharing about health have been wrong, so I don't even, I'd have to look into that. I believe that a baby should eat their mother's milk. I don't... know what it's made of and I don't... It's vegan. The definition of being vegan is like... The definition of...

[video] 29:03 Okay. It's all about consent, right? Consent, yeah. Well, the animals can't give consent. Exactly. That's... What do you mean? That's exactly what it is. You don't see other animals asking for consent or... Yeah. Well, no other animal drinks milk from another species. That's not true. Not at all. If you look it up, there are actually animals who drink milk from other species. My dog raised a couple of kittens. Yeah, it's true. It does happen. Yeah, it happens a lot. Like cows, wolves. It's pretty rare, though. If they have their own mother, they would choose their own mother. That's true. That's the best. It's in the cases of not having their mom around, right? But it works for the animals, and they grow healthy. the kittens are pretty healthy yeah it's it's it's an option it's like a good backup plan yeah yeah yeah statement wasn't true i'm sorry yeah you're right yeah

[video] 30:03 So are we done? I know that I am very healthy the way I eat. I thought the same, but you also don't know what you're lacking when you... When you're lacking... Yeah, when you're lacking. I always said to my friends and family, like, I'm healthy, I'm fine. But they were always like, you look so thin and you look so ill and... They say like, you know, my eyes, I had these dark circles. I don't know about you or how you were at that time. I know about myself that I feel healthy and I feel better physically actually than when I was vegetarian. And this is my personal experience. And I know you will always find personal stories on one side and on the other side. Of course, yeah. No, no, I didn't do... But wouldn't you say if you invest your whole career or life to veganism when you build a brand or something it will be very hard to go back right because i think a lot of these people also they they struggle but they don't want to admit it because it's yeah because a lot of financial

[video] 31:05 You know, if someone has a vegan business, for example, they probably won't switch from the next day. Obviously, but the same counts for meat-eating meat businesses.

31:18 We just want to be healthy. A peaceful anti-vegan event. At last.

31:26 I did feel some aggression from the people, but I think they didn't really do anything because of the police. What do you guys think?

[video] 31:37 Many people were aggressive. They came very aggressively. But I calmed them down with my voice and I had some good conversations. In English it's called the continuum concept. She lived with some tribes in South America, in Venezuela. And she documented how they treat their children. When they get a child, for example, put it away in a kinder wagon. They keep it always with them. And they don't focus on the child. They just do everything they do with the child. And it just grows with them. The child in its first year of existence, they don't just lie in a new bed somewhere. They're always with the mother and they experience all the ups and downs. When they climb a tree, when they do dishes or whatever. The child is always there and it gains a lot of experience from that. It makes very calm Cheers!