Ex-Vegan (3 Years): Extreme Weight Gain, Acne, Digestive Issues, Depression

Watch on YouTube · 2018-11-26 · 41 min

0:00 Simply start at the beginning and talk about when you got into veganism, what year it was and how it happened and then what happened. Okay?

[video] 0:08 Okay. Ready? Okay. Hi, I'm Lily. I'm from the UK. I got into veganism in 2014. It was completely accidental, you know, I didn't go looking for veganism. Originally I watched, I don't know if you've heard of it, the show Blackfish.

[video] 0:32 Basically, it's a show about how they treat orcas in SeaWorld. So, like, I... Sorry, my husband just walked in the room. It's a show about how they treat orcas in SeaWorld. I'm 28 now. I ate meat for the first 23 years of my life, you know? So, for me, it was just, you know, part of every day, normal doing. And so I watched Blackfish and basically I didn't like what I saw. I didn't like seeing the way the animals were treated. You know, for me, it was the first time I've actually ever thought about animals as a, anything more than animals, if you know what I mean. I'd never thought this is, you know, they're in zoos, they're in aquariums, you know, we eat animals and that's just what they are. But after watching Blackfish, I started to think, well, if that's the way they're treated,

[video] 1:27 you know, animals in aquariums, how are they treating animals, you know, from farming animals. So me being very naive, I guess, went into the broad world of the internet and started to look up factory farming and obviously had a very negative impact because anytime you look on YouTube for the way animals are treated, the first thing that comes up in your face is PETA. Now, to me, it was like, my heart, I'm a soft person. I'm just natured that way. And then I started learning about factory farms. And I saw all these brutal, murderous, horrific videos of all these animals being slaughtered. And I was watching one of your videos earlier today.

[video] 2:24 And you were talking about how in horror films, like, we see the slaughter of the, like, we see people being murdered. And because we're so, like, that's such a horrible thing for us. Like, as soon as we saw blood or, you know, an animal being slaughtered, it was a straight hit to the heart. You know, it was a, this is crazy. And I'm a child of the 90s, you know, and we only got meat and plastic wrappers. You know, there was no transition between what came from the farm and what was in the shop. So for me to go from seeing just wrapped a piece of the chicken to an animal being slaughtered was a big thing for me, you know, and it really hit home. So within about a week of watching all these different documentaries, I kept saying to myself, I'm not going to watch anymore because I'll stop eating dairy. I'm not going to watch anymore because I'll stop eating eggs. And I was speaking to my husband and I said to my husband, I'm going to go vegan. And he was like, no, you're not.

[video] 3:24 you won't be able to eat anything. And I was like, no, I am, I am. It was Easter Sunday and I had all this chocolate because it was Easter Sunday. And I was sat eating this chocolate and I was like, right, I'm going to watch about dairy farms because I keep telling myself not to. And I did. So I watched all these documentaries about the way, you know, they show you You know, the way these extreme videos show you the way farm animals are treated. And from that moment on, I threw all the chocolate in the bin. And within, like, I think it was over about the course of a week, I went from eating meat all the time to full veganism. Like, and then for myself, like, I was really for the animals. You know, it really made me sad. And that was the main reason. And then, like, I heard a lot about health benefits.

[video] 4:21 That was supposed to be, you know, you're supposed to be really healthy once you were vegan and lots of different things. And my health, I have nerve damage, I'm in a wheelchair. So for me, my health's not very good anyway. That was just like an extra added bonus. You know, it was like, I get to save all these animals, but I'll be really healthy. And then like, obviously I had an effect on my husband.

[video] 4:47 And because he was seeing me so upset, he wanted to know, you know, what it was all about. So we started watching things like Cowspiracy, Forks Over Knives, you know, the generic Earthlings, you know, the whole vegan starter book, you know. So we started watching all these documentaries together. And then for my husband, he was, you know, he was all about the environment, you know, like they say, is it 55% of...

[video] 5:14 global warming is caused by animal agriculture you know like we just we got so like it's very strange and i've heard a lot of people say it in your videos our minds were just so sunken into this world it was like we'd been given this tiny bit of information yet we acted as if it was like the you know the book of life you know and like that was the only thing we could really think about So from that point forward, my eye went vegan. Then two weeks later, my husband went vegan. And then from my own influences, my mom went vegan. My stepdad went vegan. Three of my brothers and sisters and one of their children, they were already vegetarian. But from me going on and on, and I mean, I was the pain in the ass new vegan who was like, we're murdering animals. We need to make it better, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[video] 6:14 and at the time that's what I thought was 100% you know I thought this is definitely the way to go you know we've been doing it wrong for these thousands of years we've been doing it wrong and we need to you know we need to stop hurting animals I mean I had a I had a Facebook page I had a Instagram page as like you know that's where all the vegans are at you know um and So a lot of people from my influence also went vegan. I mean, I'll touch back on this later. But at the time, I thought I was doing them the best favor in the world. Now, not so much. But at the time, I did. And so again, I watched after initially becoming vegan, I felt great.

[video] 7:01 It was not long before our wedding.

[video] 7:06 not buying meat is nice and cheap so you know just buying vegetables and stuff was really cheap and you know i was losing weight and my husband was losing weight and obviously just before you get married that's what you want you know you want and we felt we had you know clear skin and just everything that just felt really good i mean the reality now i believe is that you know we stopped drinking coke we stopped eating crap you know and take away we took the bad things out of our diet but not necessarily

[video] 7:36 made it any better you know um so at first like I said it was amazing it really was and you get such a high because not only do you feel like you're healthy but you feel like you're part of something and you're making a difference you know there were points we used to hand out flyers you know me and my husband like we live in Wales in the UK and um it's full of farms like where we live is full of farms um and we I don't know if you've ever heard of the company called Viva but they're like a vegan activist company and we handed out leaflets for them you know we put them through doors I remember we were delivering leaflets in the morning about dairy farms and we gave them to like a farmer's wife and then we realized she was a farmer's wife and had to run away from her and at the time it was very funny but like now I think back I think like what impact did that have you know I hope that didn't have

[video] 8:35 too much of an impact but like I'd follow a lot of YouTube channels like Freely the Banana Girl and Bite Size Vegan and Mick the Vegan and just like all these different like vegan YouTubers and honestly when we first went vegan like they were helpful you know because for us they looked amazing you know they were in Thailand you know they were always cycling you know they look really healthy but like just earlier when I was speaking to my husband and I was like you know we watched all these YouTube videos like yeah and what like Bite Size Vegan she rides around on a bike and like she has like like she's a bodybuilder ish and she has like she carries like banana peels and stuff like in a basket and I was saying to my husband I was like how were we like thinking that that was amazing you know like this woman is eating the

[video] 9:30 ripe of a banana peel you know like the inside the stringy bits and she'd eat like 10 of those a day she'd eat like inside of the banana peel like and at the time to me it was just like this is like this is how it's meant to be you know we're herbivores we we you know we'll thrive off animal proteins and you know and when I think about it and even talking to you now I'm slightly embarrassed Because, like, we're going against years of the way humans have lived to suddenly say, oh, we can now just survive on plants and vegetables, fruits and vegetables, and everything will be fine. We'll be okay. I mean, for me, the biggest things, like, I've been quite a militant vegan, to be honest, you know? And even...

[video] 10:28 I've only not been vegan now for just about a month and a half. And even till a month and a half ago, if people questioned veganism, because I felt like I was betraying veganism, I'd be like, even though like my husband and I were both showing signs of not being well, I'd be like, Oh no. Like people would say, you know, don't i would be like you don't know what you need into the environment you know you don't know what you need into your health and even though like i knew deep down that our health was suffering i was still like pushing out this garbage talk you know that i didn't really i think because we live in the age of the internet you know you can swallow a lot of it you know and a little knowledge which you don't really know I didn't know as much as I'd like to think I did about nutrition. You know, a lot of the time I'd be like, I know about nutrition.

[video] 11:28 I know you don't need animal proteins. You know, you'll be fine if you just have like vegetables. That's all you need. And I used to say to people like, oh, no, I never have to take supplements. But the reality was I did have to take supplements and my husband had to take supplements, you know, but because I felt like as a vegan, you're always very defensive. The minute someone questions your diet, you're like, you're wrong and I'm right and that's the end of it.

12:00 Which supplements did you take?

[video] 12:03 We took vitamin B12. We took a multivitamin. We took a mix of calcium and zinc for a while. We took... I'm trying to think now. We also did things like spirulina and wheatgrass and chia seeds and, you know, just like all these different, sometimes like I look at, even now I can still look at the remnants of our vegan life. Yeah. And there's some things and I think, what even is this? Like we used to eat a lot of nutritional yeast, which like the only thing that reminds me of is fish food. You know, like when you feed fish in a tank, like it's, I used to say, you know, we need the B12, we need the B12, we've got to eat it, we've got to eat it. But like, we took so many different vitamins over like the three year period, because like, we'd find problems. And we think, we're not eating enough.

[video] 13:00 You know, that was always the thing, we're not eating enough, like, and I was used to say, oh, we're just not eating enough, you know, we're not eating the right things. But the reality was, we were eating everything we've been told to eat, you know, we've had a very varied pulses, lentils, beans, greens, fruits, vegetables, you know, like, even now, and I've been in an hour, because I keep watching your videos, I have a ginormous smoothie in the morning. And it's got like, apple, banana, pear, parsley, spinach, cucumber, like, and I still eat that every day, you know. And that's before I've even

[video] 13:39 got that house so you know I've had this massive so it's I can't show you the jug is about this big it's huge and like I was watching again I was watching one of your videos and I was thinking I shouldn't be drinking the smoothie but like I'm trying not to because after just being in veganism I'm being I feel like I'm completely brainwashed you know and it's a horrible feeling so I'm trying not to jump from one diet to something else if you know what I mean like At the moment, we're just trying to just take baby steps, you know? I mean, first and foremost, it was for me. I was on every vegan Facebook page you could be, like every single one. So I think when you're a vegan, you're surrounded by vegan propaganda. And I use those terms loosely, but that's what it is, you know? If you're a vegan, you live in the vegan world, you know?

[video] 14:37 the vegan movement is constant in your life and you always wanted to talk about it and um like i was on the facebook page and i saw on the facebook page it said my hair is falling out and it was this woman i didn't know and she was like is anyone else to experience this whilst they've been vegan so i was like well i'll just go have a look you know i was just still vegan and because i have no damage anytime I have something wrong, I'm like, oh, it's my nerve damage, you know? And I always blame it on my nerves. I was like, repeatedly, no, it doesn't matter what it is, I'll blame it. And so although I was noticing symptoms of myself, like, I just didn't think it was veganism. I couldn't possibly, it couldn't possibly be veganism, you know? It's the best thing since sliced bread.

15:28 What exactly did you notice?

[video] 15:31 For me, like, I won't come too close. But like, if you can see my skin, I have acne and my whole life I've had really good skin, like really, really good skin. And about about a year and a half ago now, I broke out in horrific acne. And at the time, my mum has my mum can't absorb B12. This was before she was vegan. She just can't absorb it. And so the doctor started the doctor tested me for a B12 deficiency.

[video] 16:05 and said I couldn't absorb it so then started giving me injections in B12 and when that happened at the same time my face broke out in acne like nothing I've ever seen before like it's it's still quite heavy now but compared to what it was like my face was covered like absolutely covered and like it like it's a bit gross but itchy and painful to touch like I couldn't touch it and and I'm a beautician by trade, you know, I'm a makeup artist. I've not put any on because I wanted to show you my skin. So makeup's always a big part of my, you know, everything.

[video] 16:45 So when I went to...

[video] 16:50 I always assumed it was the B12. Yeah. But within a week of starting to eat animal proteins again, my skin cleared up. I mean... if you'd have seen my skin about a month and a half ago, it was covered in acne. And I mean covered. And within about a week and a half, it reduced by half. And now it's probably a quarter of what it was like before. Another thing, my husband has never really suffered with mental health issues. But he is a university student. And within the last year, he has Suffered with anxiety and depression. And, like, you'd never think, you know, if you met him, you'd never think that would be one of his issues. But he was really struggling. And I couldn't understand it.

[video] 17:48 You know, I just couldn't understand why he was feeling that way. Another thing is, as I said to you, I have nerve damage. So I'm in pain constantly. It's just a part of my condition. But I was waking up, like, in the night. And normally, the only pain that bothers me is my nerve damage, because it's so intense. You know, it's a high, intense pain. And I'm in it constantly. So nothing else really, you know, bothers me that much. I have quite a high threshold, I think the right words are. But I've been waking up with pains in my bones. Now, like, in my joints, in my hands, in my thighs, in my knees, like, And it had been waking me up. So it's the point where I was literally waking up in pain, you know, and going, I don't know what's wrong. I'm in this pain. And honestly, I was starting to think, like, I was starting to think I had bone cancer. You know, I was really starting to be concerned. And that was another one of the things.

[video] 18:47 Another thing is my teeth. My teeth have always been quite good. I'm not going to show you because it's not very nice. But, like, my tooth decay is really bad. Like, the front teeth in my mouth... have just disintegrated it wasn't that long ago i was saying to my mum um when i you know when you put your teeth like this when you rub your teeth together like i could feel my teeth falling apart and i just thought it was you know i don't know i just i don't know what i thought it was but there were so many different things and since we've been eating meat now like all those things have improved. You know, I'm not a doctor and I can't sit here.

19:33 Did you eat a lot of fruit also?

[video] 19:35 I had a lot of fruit and a lot of veggies and I think it was the smoothies, you know, because I'd have this massive fruit vegetable smoothie in the morning and think it wasn't doing me any harm at all and I think that's what's had the biggest impact on my teeth. But I Honestly, I'm not a nutrition expert, but I think my body was lacking calcium, you know, and I think that was having an effect on my teeth. I think it's having an effect on my bones. Another one of the symptoms, both my mom and myself, sorry, were you going to say something?

20:13 Yeah, the way it works is that if you don't have fat soluble vitamins, you can't deliver the minerals to the teeth. So they fall apart slowly. That's what happens to a lot of vegans. And they believe that they eat all this fruit, which has all these vitamins, but it doesn't because we can't convert the plant stuff to any of the animal vitamins. Yeah.

[video] 20:36 Yeah, the more I've looked into it since not being a vegan is I'm coming up with very similar answers. You know, it's we can't process the same way animals do. Another thing is both my mum and I, who my mum went vegan just shortly after myself, have got hyperthyroidism. We've both developed hyperthyroidism. For my mum, her thyroid became so underactive it wasn't working. And for myself, I not only gained a underactive thyroid but my antibodies were attacking my thyroid and there's a lot of controversy over the fact that veganism actually causes hyperthyroidism and the argument is well meat eaters also get hyperthyroidism but for myself obviously before I was a vegan I didn't have hyperthyroidism and that was one of my big things I really wanted to talk to you about because

[video] 21:33 A lot of people turn to veganism for weight loss, you know, as it's a quick and easy way to, you know, cut things out your diet and lose weight. For myself, I have been a vegan for three years, and in three years I have gained 10 stone. Now that is a lot of weight. For such a short period of time, that's a lot of weight. And I think, and I had a really good diet, you know. I would sit here and say I eat loads of junk food and what have you, but I don't. I was really trying to be at my optimum health. What I believe is, like I said, I'm not a doctor, but I believe my body was starving. I wasn't getting the nutrients it needed. So anytime it did get any nutrients, it was just storing anything that it could get its hands on.

[video] 22:32 like so the weight gain the hyperthyroidism the tooth decay my mum's hair was actually falling out which she'd not told me about because she didn't want to upset me which is what she said and my mum's hair was falling out my my own mental health was poor my husband's mental health was poor um like swelling as well like around my joints like get like these swollen like things like my physiotherapist said it's like tissue builder but since I've been eating meat I haven't had them I mean I'd love to be able to say to you this is exactly what's done it and this is why it's not happening anymore but what I know is all these side effects I've had while being vegan

[video] 23:28 since going back to animal proteins have decreased rapidly you know like when I first watched one of your videos it was like I think I'd not been vegan for about two days and I think every vegan knows like well every ex vegan knows that even now you know there's still times where I'm in denial to myself you know like I think for such a long time like I'd said that meat was carcasses and eggs were chicken periods and like milk I used to call it um mammalian secretions like like I was so fixed in the way I thought like I'm with even with eggs like before I was a vegan I loved eggs but I'm really struggling with eggs at the moment like and it's because of this whole chicken period thing but like again today I was listening to you and you say

[video] 24:28 Chickens don't even have periods. I was like, I need to research because it just shows the small lack of understanding I actually have.

[video] 24:44 That's what's so crazy, I think, the most about veganism, especially in our generation. I've been vegan for three years and I've only just stopped being a vegan. And like, there's so many influences in our society, you know, and we have this massive amount of, I say, knowledge, but I don't necessarily believe that everything we know, you know, is the truth. And I took it as like the Holy Bible. For me, it was like, this is the book of life and chickens, we shouldn't eat animals. And like,

[video] 25:28 think for people especially in the vegan trend because that is what is happening at the moment you know everybody's a vegan you know even three years ago when I went vegan it was still not as mainstream as it is now whereas now it's very mainstream and I think people are very vulnerable to it you know myself especially you know I think that was one of the hardest things is feeling brainwashed you know I

[video] 25:58 I just feel really brainwashed. When I first went vegan, my husband said to me, Lily, as long as it's not affecting our health, we'll stay vegan. And then when I saw the comment about the hair falling out, and I went to look at the comments of all the other people, there were so many people, with exactly the same problems. Everybody was, yes, my hair's falling out. Yes, my hair's falling out. Yes, my hair's falling out. I mean, fortunately for myself, my hair wasn't falling out, but my mum's was. And even by all the time we were vegan, in the first year, maybe year and a half, we felt really good. We felt really good. And it's like I said earlier, I think it's more a case of quitting our junk food than it is you know, being a vegan.

26:59 At first you said you lost weight, right?

[video] 27:02 Yeah.

27:02 And then later you started gaining. When was that?

[video] 27:06 Probably after about a year and a half, maybe a year and a quarter.

[video] 27:12 I lost weight probably, we first went vegan and within about the first four weeks, I probably lost about eight pounds very quickly. Um, obviously because I'd cut so much out of my diet, you know, we didn't have a good diet before we were vegan. Like it wasn't, we were both students at the time and you know, we were living a student life. Um, and we ate badly. So when we did go vegan, we cut out all the bad things. Cause you don't get, you know, you do, but even three years ago, there wasn't anything nearly like you do get now, you know, you can eat fast food, you can, You know, so I did lose weight initially. And within about, probably about a year, I'd say, maybe a year and a half, I started to put weight on. And it was rapid. It wasn't, like...

[video] 28:10 I started to put weight on, and I couldn't understand why I was putting weight on. Because I kept saying to myself, you know, you're eating so healthily, how are you gaining weight, you know? And I'd go to the doctor and obviously from me complaining to the doctor that I'm gaining weight and I don't understand why, he said, oh, well, you've got an underactive thyroid. So that was the first thing for me. And then when the underactive thyroid was treated, so this is probably six months down the line of the initial visits to the doctor, when it was treated and it was fine, I was still saying to my doctor, you know, I'm not losing weight.

[video] 28:52 know what is wrong and it got to a point where i'd write everything down that i was eating and you know show the doctor and the doctor would be like and he'd say oh it's your mobility which is obviously i'm in a wheelchair um but the thing was my mobility has always been a problem the weight hasn't does that make sense um and I think as well I think bloating is another thing I don't understand why we bloat but like since we haven't been vegan like I don't know whether I've lost weight or whether like I'm still being weighed by my doctor now you know because I've been trying to lose weight um but like my clothes all fit me better you know it's as if like this is really gross but like when we were vegan I used to get really bad stomach cramps like um cramps in my, like, you know when you get, like, trapped wind?

[video] 29:51 I'd get trapped wind, like, in my groin area. Like, even just in bed. And I'd have this really, like, bad trapped wind pain. And I don't have that anymore. So I think a lot of that is also part and parcel of being bloated, being, you know, I'm not 100% sure why it happens, but

30:15 It's all the fiber, essentially, because it's indigestible.

[video] 30:19 Like, since we've been eating meat again, I find my body processes things differently. You know, like, when I used to eat vegetables and fruits and rice and pastas all the time, I just felt like it was stuck in my stomach, you know, like a stodge. Whereas now I can feel my body using the nutrients it's getting, you know, rather than just feeling bloated and uncomfortable. Because that's all I ever was. And sometimes, like, I'd have like a main meal at evening. And then within about half an hour, I was starving and wanting to eat something else.

30:56 I was just wondering what exactly was the tipping point? Why did you quit in the end? And was it just all the symptoms, the illness?

[video] 31:06 Firstly, it was seeing the thing on Facebook about the hair falling out. That was the first thing that rocks the boat. You know, I thought,

[video] 31:15 if I have the optimal diet why are people's health falling out you know for me that was a bit of a because every other symptom I'd had up until that point I'd blend on something else you know um and I just not put two and two together you know I thought oh it's just this or it's just this or it's just this and not it's veganism so when I originally saw the stuff about the hair falling out I started to look into different people that had been a vegan because I remember originally when I first went vegan there were like videos of people saying I'm an ex-vegan and this is what happened to me and I'd be like oh they're just doing it wrong that's what it is they're doing it wrong so they're not you know that's why they don't

[video] 32:14 that's why they're not getting the right nutrition because they're doing it wrong so when I saw that on Facebook that was the tipping point I was like you know it started to make me think so then I started to look into research about people who'd been vegan and honestly I came across one of your videos and that was one of the things that made me think you know I can't remember which one it was I've watched so many but um I watched one of the videos and I was like these people have the same issues as me you know they've got joint pains they've got tooth decay they've got you know the bloating they've got the indigestion they've got all the same problems as me hair loss you know so many different things and for me that was frightening you know and one of those people you know for myself I'd have carried on being vegan for 20 years and said it was all about the animals and, you know, for me.

[video] 33:15 But for my husband and the parents, you know, and my family who I've turned to veganism, you know, through my influence, they now eat vegan diets. Although they all do tell me it's not my fault and they're grownups, but I still feel an ounce of responsibility. And for that, my main issue was their health. You know, it's not about so much about myself, but like one of the biggest concerns for me was if has fallen out on the outside and teeth are falling out and decaying, what's going on on the inside?

33:56 Another question. What do you think is the future of veganism? Where is it heading?

[video] 34:00 I think that veganism is growing.

[video] 34:11 I hope it starts to grow. But the reality is, I think it's, I think veganism is a big movement. And I think they are pinpointing young minds, you know? And I think it's very dangerous. But I think, I think it's really important that people like you and myself talk about our experiences because otherwise I think we're gonna have a lot of sick people and vegans are not gonna like me saying this but with the rate veganism is growing and the rate you know supplements not supplements but replacements are becoming available and which are just completely unnatural you know I think it's gonna grow

[video] 35:10 And I think we're going to have a lot of sick people.

35:13 Yeah, they don't care that it's unnatural. That's the problem. It's just people completely removed from reality. They just believe that we can make everything ourselves in a laboratory or whatever. It's crazy.

[video] 35:26 It's not the same. You know, if you think back to simpler times, and they say people are living longer now, which I'm I'm not a hundred percent sure on, but the way we eat now is not the way we're supposed to eat. You know, like I, as a vegan before, like my views haven't changed. I don't think factory farming is a good thing. You know, I don't believe in cruelty to animals, but at the same time, I think you've got to be ethical to yourself before you can be ethical to anything else. And if you're sick,

[video] 36:11 and in bed and there's so many times during my veganism I mean I told you I have other health problems but maybe once maybe more than five times and whilst being vegan I said to my husband I feel like I'm dying like I've just not been able to get out of bed I've been like I feel so ill like I feel like I'm dying so you have all these people who want to make a difference in the world and you know all these impressionable minds and the reality is they're gonna kill themselves off and they're not gonna be able to make a difference at all in that case if you're having to take supplements you're not living a healthy life you're not eating a healthy diet you know the fact that you're having to take the supplements is counterproductive you know I That's what I always found.

[video] 37:09 I always thought, why am I taking B12? Why am I taking calcium? I should be able to get this from my food, and I just wasn't.

37:19 I have a video post about Ajna's wonder planets. He went to an island and met 150 year olds who eat fish, raw fish and coconuts and some other stuff. And he said that the women there who were 80, they looked like 40, the way we have in our society. So that alone says everything about our longevity because most people die at around 70 nowadays. We don't live long at all.

[video] 37:44 No, not at all. Recently, in the past week, this is unpleasant, but two of my aunties have died. One of them was 55, and the other one was my great-auntie, and she was 86. Now, she would have been brought up in the baby boomer period, you know, where it was meat and two vads, you know? And she lived a really, really long time. Yet my auntie, who is 57, you know, died of cancer a week ago, you know? And that says something to me. You know, there's obviously been a... I mean, 80 is not that much of a long life, really. You know, you can live much longer. So these people who have been vegan for, like, 20 years, they must be suffering.

38:33 Yeah, I would say that they lie, but they're also mentally ill, so they don't even realize what's going on and they make themselves believe a lot of stuff. Because a lot of these ex-vegans who come out and they admit that they had this and that, a lot of health problems. But while they're vegan, they just can't come out because then they got to admit that they were wrong. And that's an ego thing. You promote it to everybody and then after many years you say, wow, I was wrong. It's just hard for humans to do about anything. And if you promote it so much and you make YouTube videos and your life depends on it, it's super hard for them to do it. A lot of them will get really sick or they will secretly eat animal foods.

[video] 39:17 Yeah.

[video] 39:20 I definitely think you're right. I mean, for myself, like even...

[video] 39:26 I was expecting my stepdad to give me a lot of grief because he's just that kind of man and he went vegan under my influence. And I said to him the other day, I said, look, David, I'm really sorry, but I was wrong. You know, I was just wrong. There's no more to it than that. But my sister and my brother and my niece who have all gone vegan because of me, they were vegetarian anyway, but then they're new to veganism. I still haven't told them that I'm eating meat and animal products again because I'm scared you know I'm not scared it's probably the wrong word but kind of ashamed you know and like I know I don't know what response I'm gonna get you know so I can't imagine what it's like for someone who's broadcasting on such a massive scale you know to have to tell hundreds and thousands of people that they were wrong and that they're going to eat animal products because I just don't want to tell my brother and sister.

[video] 40:25 You know, I don't want to say, you know, I'm eating animal products now and I think you should too. You know, because I was the one who was, you know, they're raping cows and they're raping bees and they're killing children. And, you know, like I was that vegan. I was the vegan who was a nightmare. I was the vegan you didn't want to meet, you know. You know, when you're a vegan, you think, Oh, you'll never get cancer.

[video] 40:55 You're immortal. Because that's the idea it gives you. It's what you get in your head. Sorry, you were going to say something.

41:03 No, I was just going to say thanks for sharing your story.

[video] 41:09 I hope it is helpful to somebody. For sure.

[video] 41:15 And thank you for doing what you do. You know, I really think it's important that we have people out there that are, you know, getting the message out there. I think it's important that, especially with the way veganism is going, we need people to be saying it's not the be all and end all. It's not optimal. It's not healthy. You know, we need people like you to be able to talk to people like me, funnily enough. But yeah, I... I think it's amazing what you're doing.