Ex-Vegan (6+ Months): Vegans Attack Me For Finally Being Healthy

Watch on YouTube · 2018-07-26 · 48 min

0:00 Just start at the beginning and tell why you got into veganism and when.

[video] 0:04 Yeah, sure. Cool. Well, first of all, nice to meet you. Thank you so much for having me on. Yeah, cool. Yeah, well, I grew up on a regular English diet in the 60s of meat and two veg, and I was pretty healthy. I was fine. And then I suppose the first problems happened when I was a serious hippie and used to travel around in wagons and live in buses and teepees and stuff and Of course all the macrobiotic thing was going on back then Probably about I don't know 1980 maybe 79 80 and yeah, so we all got into that and I started to notice this was the first time I started to get sort of weird depressive thoughts and Bad back and things like that things that I've never had in my whole life before and then

[video] 0:58 Then after a little while of that, I decided, yeah, I'm going to stop with all the psilocybin and all that sort of thing, and I'm going to become a yogi and go up and live where I live now, actually, the center of the whole transcendental meditation thing. And of course, they're very vegetarian, and they've misinterpreted Ayurveda and all of that kind of thing and say that, yeah, you've got to eat all this southern Indian food or whatever or You know, anyway, is it northern India? Well, they're all the rice and dal and veg and stuff like that. So they live on that. And I got into that. And, yeah, pretty soon started to have some serious joint problems. Nowhere near as serious as they became. But, yeah, sorry, this is flying, driving me nuts. Anyway, so, yeah, I got into that. Everybody seemed reasonably healthy. You know, they were in their 30s or whatever. I was in my 20s. And it seemed okay. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

[video] 1:56 And then that carried on pretty much vegetarian until about 1997 when I took over a gym and I started, I ran it, you know, and started craving some protein with all the training, obviously, and added a few chicken breasts, which doesn't really do much, you know, if it's still a high-carb diet, it doesn't really do much.

[video] 2:21 So I grew, you know, I got quite big, but I started to get all these terrible joint problems, you know, sacroiliacs going, my wrist was trashed. I was a drummer, well, I still am, and my wrist was really bad, really painful. I used to have to put it in ice buckets, you know, in between sets when I was playing, and I just wasn't twigging it, and I started to get really fat and whatever, and this went on until... We'll skip forward to 2010. Well, 2009, I was really fat, and I thought, ooh, I'm going to... I'd written a book in 96 on training and Ayurveda and diet and all that sort of thing. The diet chapter was shite. The rest of it was okay. So I thought, you know, I'm going to get a website, and I'm going to chart my return to health, you know, with all of this yogic-type exercising and... Mountain biking and all of that sort of thing.

[video] 3:19 I used to write for the mountain bike mags and Little did I realize that a year later I'd be in a far worse state, you know, I mean that the exercise did nothing the calories in calories out thing doesn't do anything and so a year or so later I'd come back from a holiday in Thailand and one ankle one morning just completely exploded and It was It was so painful to walk on. I went to the doctor and sprained it. No, no, no. Well, you know, we don't know. And then about a week later, the other ankle went and then the left knee. And I was in proper, proper mess, real, real pain. And there was so many other things, you know, all sorts of brain fog. And I'd been diagnosed with a fatty liver with cysts on it and all kinds of things that happened.

[video] 4:14 So I went off to the rheumatologist and he said, oh, yeah, well, hopefully it's just reactive arthritis and it should die down. But if not, if it's still there in six months, you know, it's probably permanent. Anyway, you know, the big fight with that, I've written a book on that since all the fights with the rheumatologists and all how it goes, you know, and they don't have any. Well, they're starting to wake up a bit. But back then, 2010, it was like, don't be silly. They probably saw somebody give up bread for a week and their rheumatoid arthritis didn't get better. So They decided it doesn't work. So, being a vegetarian, predominantly, always kind of believing it was the best thing, I decided, right, the thing to do is raw veganism. So, off I went, you know, on the whole raw vegan thing. I mean, fasting was good. It really took the symptoms away. You know, I used to do all kinds of water fasts, like three days, five days, eleven days, I think was the most. I didn't do any monstrous ones, but after the third day it was heaven.

[video] 5:14 Suddenly the symptoms would disappear. So it was really obvious that diet had something to do with it, and it had something to do with the gut, you know. So, anyway, but of course the answer must be raw veganism. Isn't it the most pure diet? Isn't it the most wonderful thing that's going to detox the body of all demons? So away I went, you know, and it was just ridiculous, just juiced stuff, spinach and avocados and of course loads of bananas because you can't stand the taste of the rest of it without bananas in there. And then it just wasn't getting any better. A couple of things kind of cleared up so you can see how vegans have the initial results, you know, and I lost a ton of weight. You know, I lost about 75 pounds, I think, disappeared. But it was obvious that all my muscle had gone as well.

[video] 6:12 So then finally I discovered a more keto diet. I discovered the whole Natasha Campbell McBride thing, you know, and GAPS diet and stuff. And I got onto that. And I also discovered good old Jack, you know, good old Jack Cruz and got into his protocols and got into some cold thermogenesis and just ended up absolutely ripped. The trouble is I'd lost all my muscle as well, so I was about nine stone in English money, which is like, you know, 125 pounds, something like that, at five foot ten, really emaciated. My whole left quad had disappeared. There's pics on my website of, it just looks like a piece of string and then a ball and then a piece of string, you know, where the inflammation in the knee had wasted the quad.

[video] 6:59 so much inflammation still there. And then basically I discovered one day, I decided to, going back a bit to before the cold thermogenesis, I got so much brain fog that I was walking into rooms and just not even knowing why I walked in there. My girlfriend would go off to work and I'd be looking after my daughter who was young, she's nine now, she was like two at the time or something, three. And sometimes she'd have to come tell me, you know, you've left a tap running and it's flooding the kitchen or something's burning on the stove. I just had no idea. So I went on a one-week-long fish fast. I ate nothing but fish for a week. And all the faculties came back. You know, the inflammation calmed down just as it would have done on a water fast. But also all the brain fog disappeared and I didn't feel like I had Alzheimer's anymore. And it was a real turning point.

[video] 7:56 So then, yeah, into all the GAP stuff and the keto and cold thermogenesis, cold baths and all that kind of thing. And, you know, finally, things started to come together. And after a couple of years, I could even play drums again. And that was great, you know, being able to get out, get back into bands. I was still taking the odd painkiller when things weren't working. And after...

[video] 8:24 I got into the keto stuff to calm down some of the inflammation. There was one winter, I think it was 2012, 2013, where I was able to train again and put back sort of a third or something of the muscle that I'd lost. But at least I had some actual body mass back again.

[video] 8:46 But the great revelation to me has been really the last two years of dropping the last of You know, on my Facebook group, my carnival group, and on the other carnival groups, I just see so many fantastic results from people who have come from keto and dropped the last of the fibrous veggie out. You know, I used to wonder when I was really sick that I could eat a whole bar of dark chocolate and nothing would happen. But I have a little bit of broccoli or something and cauliflower and all hell would break loose. And you know, I've seen a few explanations of this, that it carries the starch further down into the gut and activates Klebsiella or whatever, the bacteria that's so associated with autoimmunity. Maybe it's this, maybe it isn't, but it used to feel like that. You know, I could binge on dark chocolate and nothing would really happen.

[video] 9:40 It wasn't optimal, it didn't make me feel brilliant, but it didn't have me confined to the sofa like vegetables did. But then I thought, oh, the gut's healing, vegetables are good, you know, because the brainwashing is still there.

[video] 9:54 how much I've studied and how impossible it is to dig up this information that you really don't need them, you know? It's absolutely mad. I was really open-minded, and it was my passion, and I was sick and desperate. So what chance is a militant vegan got of ever understanding that it might be at the root of their problems? And so now, you know, I mean, you get it probably more than me, but I've been fending them off really badly. I tweeted something just yesterday saying,

[video] 10:26 Seeing so many vegans breaking now, so many interviews, so many even of the vloggers are having terrible trouble. So please, dig me up a carnivore problem. Dig me up one 100% carnivore who's broken. Come on, let's have one. No, but of course, the same old vegan attacks with the same old dogma, the same old nonsense all the time. But nobody's come up with one yet. They've been at it all night having a go at me, but they haven't come up with one yet. And And it's funny, it took that long, but the improvements have been quite extraordinary. I mean, the energy is ridiculous. Like I sent you that message yesterday. I'm 56 and I go out and play these gigs. And I know it wasn't natural because when I first started back into it, I was really kind of weedy and I was wondering if I could play again. I was having difficulty getting through gigs. But yesterday was an extraordinary gig. It was a very loud sort of guitar bass, wailing guitars and crazy blues and funk and stuff. And it's really energetic. And I could have done it all over again.

[video] 11:24 And I don't think I did. Oh, no, I had one rump steak yesterday. I didn't even really eat anything. You know, sometimes there's young guys in the band and their energy's down, everything. Just the improvements of throwing out the last of the veg have been fantastic. I haven't gone on to raw meat, but I mean, I've eaten a bit of it. I've tried bits here and there. It's okay. Not massively keen on it. Maybe I'll have a go at that soon and see if there's even better, you know. But it's nice to take one stage and one stage and one stage, but I wouldn't say it was all diet that fixed me. I think it was other stuff, all the stuff about the blue light and things like that. When you're really sick, it's funny, a lot of people don't notice the difference, but when you're really sick and you have a load of stuff to try it out on, a load of stuff to try out on the disease, it becomes really clear what's working and what isn't.

[video] 12:15 I mean, a thousand things. Some vegan said to me this morning, oh, it's just the placebo effect. I mean, I was convinced it was going to be veganism. If anything was going to be placebo, it would have been that. It didn't work. So, yeah, I mean, of the thousands of ridiculous things I tried, you know, everything I Googled, I tried. I can tell you every fix there is out there that works or doesn't work. And, you know, the big ones were diet and light and emotional stuff, you know, and that kind of thing. And you can see how they work. But yeah, this whole carnivore thing, it's completely got me sold. They're saying, oh, everyone's going to die down the line, and they're all going to die of all this cardiovascular problems. Well, I used to have arterial calcifications. They all disappeared. The fatty liver disappeared. The cysts disappeared.

[video] 13:05 The vegans were hassling me for blood tests recently.

[video] 13:11 And I thought, well, okay. You know, in this country, when you get to be a bit of an old codger like me, they keep sending you these letters. We need to do a check. You know, we need to do this. I put them in the bin because all you do is sit there and you have a lecture about statins and then you tell them to fuck off and then you go home. It's not worth it. But I thought, well, okay, if they're shouting about it. And I've been actually, my mom died recently. There was a period over that. I've been really hammering the wine too much. And And I've been quite enjoying it because my liver seems to be really clear, and I've been kind of really enjoying wine, and it doesn't seem to have any negative effects, and I don't seem to have any hangovers whatsoever. I don't pretend it's optimal, but I thought, well, it's going to be interesting to see if I've blown up my liver again because my liver was trashed. So I went to the doc and the nurse, you know, the practice nurse sees you, and she said, oh, well, LDL's up a little bit. And I said, yeah, that's cool. That's fine. That's where I want it to be.

[video] 14:03 And I said, you know, HDL, triglycerides, oh, yeah, great, matched up, you know, that's cool. And I said, you know, the high LDL thing is a bit of a con to cell statins and whatever. And she said, yeah, yeah, I know. So that was cool. I thought, okay. And so I hope I don't get you in trouble. I hope nobody's watching this like the doc at the practice or something. But anyway, and then I said, yeah, but what about the liver results? And she went, absolutely perfect. And actually that surprised me because it's funny, isn't it? But when you look at it, you know, I'm not advocating drinking or smoking, but when you look at the indigenous tribes, so many of them smoke tobacco, so many of them get mashed on their home brew so often. They do everything else right and it's fine. And are those things actually wrong? I don't know. You know, I don't think they're optimal, but it just shows.

14:56 How long were you vegan altogether, by the way?

[video] 14:58 The actual vegan thing? I mean, I've had my periods of it in the past.

15:02 Okay.

[video] 15:03 where I've gone from vegetarian to vegan for a few months here and there, and then back to vegetarianism again. I've done it over 20 years. I think it was probably 20 years where I didn't eat meat. And it was the site of all my health problems, all of them. I don't really see a difference between veganism, vegetarianism, and really, really high-carb diets that have a bit of meat in. But my big, real experiment with absolute full-on raw veganism was probably about six months when I was panicked and already ill. So I can see that people who are young, they're going to get away with that for longer. They're young, they're well, they're going to get away with it for longer. But if you've already got raging autoimmunity, there might be a couple of things that kind of balance out early on. And that fools you. Because I always think it's like, you remember the Rubik's Cubes?

[video] 15:59 You know, it looks like you fixed a couple of sides, and you're looking at it from that angle, and it looks okay, but you turn it around, and all the other sides are all over the place. And that, to me, seems like veganism. You've got to pull the whole thing apart and then redo it, you know, just get rid of all your old ideas and redo it, and then you might get all the six sides of the Rubik's Cube sorted, you know. So, and that's how the puzzle felt. But it was, you know, the full-on raw veganism, yeah, was six months or so.

16:26 Did you also cook vegan in between?

[video] 16:29 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've done that. I tried that, and then I went into the raw thing, and it was horrible. I mean, that fucking food. You know, it's a chore to get it down. It really is. It's an absolute chore. You're just thinking of things all day of how to get it down. Oh, actually, when that didn't work, the last thing was probably a good month of being fruitarian. I'm really embarrassed to say how hard. in an interview, though. But I did get taken in by, what's his name, the doc who wrote the 80-20 thing, and Durian Rider. I'm like, now I think, oh, come on, man. How nuts must I have been already to have swallowed that stuff? But the fruitarian thing, oh, it was horrible. I could feel, I have great teeth. You know, I've got one tiny filling that I probably didn't need, and the rest of my family had no fillings.

[video] 17:26 But I could feel my teeth starting, the enamel to start coming off at that time. You know, they were sore constantly. It was just a horrible time. It really was. You know, your first couple of meals, you're thinking, God, this fly is crazy. These couple of meals, you think, yeah, bananas, pineapples, yeah, so it's quite nice, you know. But after a couple of days of it and then a couple of weeks, and then I, oh, my God. Yeah, so the teeth started to hurt and everything. They were completely sorted out and re-enameled now. But yeah, that was kind of the worst time of me.

18:02 Did you get into the supplements or stuff? Probably not, right? Because it wasn't so long. Or did you try something?

[video] 18:08 Well, you know, all through that time, I tried everything. You know, I was on so many supplements. If I could have, not the supplements, for you would say the vegan supplements as such you know the trying to negate the vegan diet but just thinking what is it that gets rid of arthritis anything I think of you know boswellia turmeric zinc this that this that you know I did all kinds of crazy things one of the craziest things I did I think was distilled water you know I found this site called AquariusTheWaterBearer.com or something. And this guy was really going on about distilled water. It's the answer to everything. And there was one other guy in my town who was into it as well. And we used to go down to the supermarket. We used to sort of race for the distilled water, and they used to run out. And eventually I got this big distiller. I paid a fortune for it.

[video] 19:09 Drank all this distilled water, and I was eating lettuce and crap like that. And I had this big distiller, and I drink a gallon a day of distilled water, and I did it for five months. And after, in fact, that was through the beginning of the keto time as well. And I wrecked my, I lost my sense of taste completely. I lost my sense of taste. And then I turned to do some investigation and realized I'd stripped all the zinc out, and I had to put a load of zinc back in. Okay, maybe it chelates things kind of okay, but then it gets all the good stuff out too. I think the distilled water craze is a little bit dodgy. Even people who know about it say not for too long, you know? But yeah, during the vegan time, I was taking a ton of things. I know that I could buy myself an extremely smart car now if I'd saved the money on that rubbish.

[video] 20:05 All kinds of things, all kinds of herbs, pills, powders, Ayurvedic stuff, anything, it It did so little, you know, every single thing I took. I mean, you know, magnesium now and again, you can feel the effect of that. Look, if people are depleted in that and whatever, it can help a couple of things. K2 can help strip out calcifications, I think, if you D's up and stop the calcium going in the wrong places. But nothing really worked until the carbs were cut out. Nothing really came together until all the starches were cut out and the veg. So I really think now meat's the only supplement you need. I see it again and again among the carnivores. They just say, I used to supplement, or I used to fast, or I used to do this, or I used to do that. And they don't really need them. Like the probiotic foods, you know? all the kimchis and keffirs and sauerkraut. I used to eat a ton of those. Not anymore. Not anymore.

[video] 21:03 You know, I heard you saying to Tristan that you don't fart anymore, and it is. This friend of mine who I was saying before we started recording, who's fixed his diabetes, and he was saying, there's only one downside to this diet, and that is you don't fart anymore. I used to love farting. You don't, you know. But yeah, yeah, so shit loads of supplements, yeah.

21:25 Is there anything you would want to say to vegans who are watching? You probably talk to them a lot anyway, but anything specific?

[video] 21:32 I do talk to them a lot. I just like to say, you know, just look at the aggression, you know? Look at the aggression you're coming out with, guys. And then telling me I'm incredibly aggressive. I'm really patient with you, you know? I'm I'm so patient with them. I sometimes have a laugh and just write some ridiculous things, you know, because I have one of those daft English Monty Python-esque sense of humor and, you know, you can't resist taking a piss out of them sometimes. But normally, if they're reasonable, I'll chat with them, you know. But I had to do in the end that vegan attack video because it was just getting so bad and I was spending so much time going round and round the same things. And I just say that You know, not everything is what it seems. When I was vegan, I was never militant. I was never nasty to anybody. I just genuinely thought that it was a really great thing to do for health.

[video] 22:31 And it wasn't. And I had a really open mind. All I was interested in was finding the truth about something or the best thing I could find out about. So I wasn't even that attached to it. As I'm not attached to carnivory, it's the best thing I've found now. If I find something else better, like hopping up and down on one leg or something up your ass, maybe this is better. But people keep saying, closed-minded, won't look at veganism. Christ, I've looked at veganism. I've been at it for 20 years. I'm alternating with vegetarianism. Just, guys, really, really open your mind and look at the new science. Stop screaming out for studies. Stop going, where are the studies, where are the studies? I mean, only this morning I linked a guy to studies. And then he goes, where are the studies? I say, why don't you open that? I'm not looking at that. Well, why, you know, just to have some curiosity. I don't care what anyone eats. I don't force anything on anyone. The thing that puzzles me is a lack of curiosity, you know?

[video] 23:32 How can you not be curious about what's going on in the world? How can you not want to keep? You're disassembling your own ideas and finding better ideas. How can you not want to? The levels of deception are enormous. So, you know, open your minds. Look at the other stuff with an open mind. I've already looked at all of your stuff with an open mind. You know, everything you link me to. All the vegan bodybuilders and all that sort of crap. You know, I've seen them all before. Stop linking them. Honestly, I'm not being close-minded. I've looked into it all. I've looked at all hundreds of them, and most of them built it without veganism. Most of them are on steroids, and most of them fail on the veganism, like that video you did about them. I love sending vegans that video when they send me the bodybuilder thing. You really nailed it in that one. Start to look at people. Ignore Sean Baker's blood results. All of this always calling out Sean and his blood results.

[video] 24:29 had to make a bit about that too because they don't know they haven't got a clue and when you actually look at it i've heard a couple of guys who've done a lot of research into this with low-carb athletes and whatever um and they've been saying well the glucose spikes on people who are doing an enormous amount of exercise but the insulin is low so they're insulin sensitive he's fine he's okay it's the exercise that's doing that it's nothing to do with this um The testosterone low is probably an enormous amount of exercise as a result of that and the exact window that he got it taken in on that one day. Just start to listen to the guys who are coming out with this real science, but you don't want to. You've got your cognitive dissonance. You don't want to hear that stuff. People like Ivor Cummings, if you're still stuck in this ridiculous lipid hypothesis, just have a listen to Ivor Cummings. Have a listen to Ted Naiman. Have a listen to the docs that are really on the cutting edge. Malcolm Kendrick, he's great, who wrote the great cholesterol column.

[video] 25:28 He's a great character. I did a talk with him a while ago. He's a Scotsman, and he doesn't mince his words. He's great. He doesn't fuck about at all. He's really dissecting the studies and coming up with other studies now that are showing that it's proper nonsense. Just look. Look deeper at the other side of things. The funny thing is, don't you think it's weird that most carnivores have been vegetarian or vegan at one point, and yet they have no knowledge of carnivory. They've never tried it, and yet they still argue like crazy. I don't go onto vegan groups and vegan YouTube channels and argue. I don't go in it. They get on with it. Let them get on with it. It's fine. But they swarm onto ours, don't they? It's absolutely mad. And they have no knowledge of it. I can't imagine going and arguing on a brain surgery forum or something.

[video] 26:29 Just sit there and learn. Watch if you like. Go away if you're not interested. But it's this religion, as you say. It's the religion of we've got to save the planet. And they're not even doing that, as we know. So, yeah, it's crazy. Just open your minds, guys. Just open your minds. Calm down. Stop insulting everybody. We're not really that aggressive. We're not really that nice to them. I go on to vegan groups and I see vegans arguing amongst themselves. You know, this vegan's not vegan enough. This one's the wrong type of vegan. This one is, you know, they're just arguing constantly. And you go on to carnival groups, they're just funny. They're cool. People are having a laugh, you know? And even if a vegan comes on, unless he's trolling really badly, if a vegan comes on, it's like, hey, cool. How are you doing? Hang out. See if we can help. Because we've been there. We've been sick. We've lived. We've farted all day long. We've shit 12 times a day. We've done all of this kind of thing. So we've been there. So just hang out. And if you're really not into it and you want to carry on with the veganism, great, carry on.

[video] 27:27 But these attacks, pack it in. Pack in the attacks, guys. It's ridiculous.

27:31 That's the mental issues, because vegans can't be friends with anybody else, whereas everybody else doesn't really mind. I could be friends with vegans, because I'm just happy I'm relaxed, but they can't do it.

[video] 27:44 Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And I'm also seeing, as you probably are, so many mental issues come together again. It's just wonderful when you see people coming. You know, you see these awful meltdowns of these vegans. I've seen a couple recently that I've forgotten their name. You know, I could link it to the vegans, but I feel like I don't really want to embarrass them. I go, here's one who's in trouble. I feel for them. My heart goes out to them. You know, I don't want to go, ha, ha, ha. You know, I'll mention vegetable police because he's kind of coming around to it, isn't he? And he seems to be having trouble and admitting that he's having trouble and whatever. But a lot of them are saying, I've got this issue and that issue and I can't make my workout bid and I can't do this. Excuse me this week and I've got depression and I've got lots of IBS and psoriasis and I don't know what I'm doing it because my diet's wonderful. And you're like, come on, Mark. So, you know, they seem to be falling apart and stuff. And

[video] 28:41 And it's funny, you know, what I'd also say to vegans is when I'm not really arguing with you. If I do discuss with you, it's because there's a good point you brought up. And because so often I get vegans who are on the brink of getting ill and they're not commenting and they're not aggressive and they're just looking, you know. And so often they come to me and I've been able to help them really, really get well. Even some who have... argued with me in the past. They'll come to me and say, hey, listen, my thyroid's blown up or something. And then you can help them out. I don't say I'm any kind of a healer. It's just simple, isn't it? You tell them how to help themselves, and then they can see the sense in it, show them where to look, and you get these wonderful results and healing stories, testimonials back.

[video] 29:34 So yeah, I will discuss with vegans sometimes now if I think the subject's good, just because I know there's other people watching. And very often they end up on my group or they end up contacting me or they end up contacting somebody else who knows about it. And it's great to see. So it's not for the benefit generally. People go, why do you argue with them? Well, if they're too aggressive, I don't. But if they're actually asking a few things and not being too bad, then it's kind of an interesting one because it's probably there's a lot of vegans watching and want to ask those questions because they're having trouble, you know? Yeah.

30:09 I want to ask about what you eat. Is it also like Sean mostly cooked muscle meat or do you also eat organs and something else?

[video] 30:16 Yeah, I eat organs. I don't eat an enormous amount of organs. I eat them because, you know, I see these people staying well on just muscle meat for years. But like you, I have my suspicions.

[video] 30:32 You know, in the Stephenson book, he's saying that the Inuit used to eat the muscles and throw the organs to the dogs. You know, I don't know. I actually haven't got, if I'm wrong on that, correct me, because I haven't got to that part in the book. I just hear people quoting it all the time. But for me, I would like to keep it covered. You know, so I eat liver. I eat chicken livers. I eat fish. You know, I will have a lot of bone broths and stuff. I do have that.

30:57 I haven't read it, but from what I understand, it's what he did. So he just reported about it, not what they did. And of course, there's a lot of documentaries about them, and you can see that they are all about the organs and fat and everything.

[video] 31:14 Yeah, well, there was a bit of a discrepancy there, but a lot of people are saying that. So that's why I brought it. This is the thing. It showed it there. You see, I've heard something. But I also am not sure. So I'll say, hey, is that true? This is the thing about vegans. Why don't they do that? Why don't they go, hey, question that, you know? Because it seemed a bit weird to me. I can't see an indigenous tribe throwing everything to the dogs. But, you know, I don't know. I'll wait until I get to that bit in the book so I know about what he's saying about it. So, yeah, I think, yeah, organ meats and stuff, definitely. I also eat egg yolks and I eat butter. I don't get on so great with the whites. But I don't eat them every day. But beef every day, lamb, the chicken I don't get on with. I think if you've had some sort of autoimmunity, I always feel like chicken's kind of walking corn. I miss chicken.

[video] 32:08 I'd love it if I could find some chickens that had eaten grubs and ripped the odd mouse to bits, you know, because they're not vegetarian. And if they'd eaten that, then yeah, I think that would be great. I definitely miss crispy chicken skin. That's great, isn't it? No, I don't eat it. Maybe once every couple of months I might have a little bit, you know, but if I'm out at a restaurant or something and I might have a steak and a few of their chicken wings or something. But as long as I don't have it too often, it doesn't affect me. And pork I find doesn't affect me very well either. You know, I'm completely symptom-free, but I have one little –

[video] 32:47 One little light gauge, one little instrument panel left, which is the left knee, that was definitely the most wrecked. And it's still got some extra kind of tissue in there, although there's no inflammation. But it can be set off. Nowhere else in my body I can eat anything. I could probably eat a loaf of bread now, and it wouldn't set it off. But the... ice cream van, or the heroin van, as we call it around here, because I think they stocked out more than ice cream. Well, frozen vegetable oil, really, isn't it? It's not ice cream here. Yeah, so I can get a little kind of tingle and I can feel it in that meat. And this warns me if, you know, I've had some chicken that's been full of corn or some pig that's been fed on old newspaper and socks and God knows what.

33:32 It's terrible what they feed them.

[video] 33:35 I know.

33:35 What do you think is the future of veganism? What's going to happen?

[video] 33:40 I don't know. I mean, wouldn't it be awful if it became this really worldwide thing? I just think all we can do is to illustrate the real health problems that are coming up on it and then people do start to question. I would say, honestly, of people I've met and people I know, nine out of ten vegans are starting to question, you know, somehow, a little bit, even if they're not admitting it.

[video] 34:07 So, I think the message will be strong. I think also people are so obsessed with science, and they don't realize that science most of the time isn't science, it's just scientism and whatever, you know, whatever ends up on the front of the tabloid newspaper is their idea of science. So it isn't. There's some wonderful studies coming out. They're really proving that cholesterol is not the evil. It's much more down to insulin and inflammation if you're going to take it from blood markers and things like that. So I think as that comes out and it gets drilled into them, there's going to be a while. So what was that old, was it Gandhi or something? First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, and then they attack you, and then they And then you win or something like that. I probably got it wrong. But I think this might happen. I can't see. I can't see. I'm never 100% on anything.

[video] 35:00 But I can't see a diet that keeps me, you know, I'm not ripped because I drink some wine. As soon as I stop drinking wine, like abs pop out and everything, however much I eat. And I don't see other 56-year-olds without a belly around where I live. And a diet that would do that, and I eat to my capacity. I never starve myself. A diet that would do that and get rid of multiple autoimmunities, skin issues, calcifications, fatty liver, kidney stones. Jesus, did I have a big kidney stone. It was agony. Of course, they say it's protein. No, it's not. It was all the juiced spinach. And my god, the pain of that. It was unbelievable. I eventually had to have it lasered out. They had to go up the end of my knob and put a laser up and get rid of it. But no problem since then. They obviously say, oh, avoid the protein, but nothing since then.

[video] 35:58 And kidney function is perfect and everything. So if a diet can clear all of that up and reverse my mom's breast cancer, I don't know if you've seen that. I've got a little video taken out of a talk. that I did for the World Health Innovation Summit, and I was talking to some docs and health professionals, and they were really open, they were cool. But with my mom's permission, she was 93 last year, and we reversed her breast cancer. And I've got pictures of it ulcerating through the skin, and then it's disappearing. Of course, the vegans probably think I photoshopped it or used the before as an after or something just to not believe me, but basically it was on an all-meat diet.

[video] 36:41 It wasn't just that. We did a few other things. And I think a big thing was just like a five-quid bottle of iodine, you know, to restore all the hormones. Because if it's a hormonally driven tumor, you can kind of really affect it with an iodine protocol, really loading up and then tapering off again. And actually, some people think it hasn't worked. But then four months down the line, three months, four months down the line, suddenly it starts vanishing. I'd forgotten. I'd actually given up. I thought, we failed on this. We had it shrinking down with a bit of cannabis oil as well as the meat diet. But she was 93 and she was getting really sick of being stoned every day. So we stopped that and it was shrinking down a bit and then it started to come back again. But the iodine nailed it. And it was a shame because we'd just done that. She died this year in May. She had two bouts of pneumonia in a row. But the cancer didn't get her. The cancer was gone. I'm glad I got the pics actually because no one would believe me.

[video] 37:39 And so, how can a diet that does all that, how can a diet that does all that suddenly kill you? I don't see it myself. I really don't. So, I don't see vegans going, you have to go back to vegetarianism, you have to do this, and you have all the results if you only ate that. Don't they always say, you didn't do it right then? Christ, I reckon that I know better than 99% of vegans how to form a whole food plant-based diet. a so-called healthy one, but it doesn't work. It didn't work. I wasn't eating chocolate bars all day long and bread and crisps and whatever, all this vegan crap. I wasn't doing it. It was a proper, full-on, healing vegan diet. It just made me sick. Don't keep on saying to me, I was doing it wrong. I wasn't doing it wrong. Well, I was, but not in their eyes. So, yeah, they'll dismiss it like that. But, you know, I cannot say how many things have cleared up, even things that I forgot I had.

[video] 38:39 One thing blew me away when I started that carnival group. And I started it up because about 10 friends said to me, oh, you've been eating all meat for a couple of years. Why don't you help me out? You know, let's form a little group. And then people started to ask to join and blah, blah, blah. And we got, I think, like 3,500 now or something and great docs on there and everything. What blew me away in the first month, because we did it to, because everybody was talking about Sean's, you know, meet January or whatever it was. Yeah. So what blew me away was the people who did it who were kind of ill or something, they did it for some reason. And their partners did it at the same time to support them. And suddenly I started to get these messages. You know, people were saying, oh, well, there's nothing wrong with me, but I'll give it a go just to support my wife or whatever. And then I started to get these beautiful messages, these long posts.

[video] 39:34 One guy particularly was very eloquent in writing these beautiful, funny posts. But how much was he was fixing that he didn't even know he had? You know, the loss of the lower belly fat going, the energy in the gym. the sort of tiredness that he was having at certain times of day at work. So many things disappearing, little aches and pains that he just put down to age, whatever it was, there was loads. And these were in people who really, really thought they were healthy. So it isn't just because sometimes they say, oh, well, maybe then it might be just a reset for you because you're so broken you can't eat proper food. Well, you know, what's proper food? It's really, it's not quinoa. It's just not. And so, yeah, that was blowing me away. The healthy people who were having fantastic results. That was great, yeah.

40:28 Is there anything else special that you would like to add about veganism that people should know maybe or something you experienced? Something important?

[video] 40:38 Well, you know, I would just...

[video] 40:42 I would say one strange thing about it is that

[video] 40:48 It's not so much even the mental illness that can come from it, the psychological problems, but it must be a kind of low dopamine thing or something of just really not being able to see what's so blatantly obvious, what's in front of you, you know? Just to be stuck in a rut. And I never really got that bad because I've always had an open mind by nature, but I do think back to those times and think, left to my own devices without somebody giving me a slap, I was going down some really stupid paths and I was really believing them. And now it seems so blatantly obvious with five minutes Googling from scratch that it's nonsense. And I was starting to get stuck in that. And so you can see it's, you know, this whole business, I'm not a great conspiracy theorist,

[video] 41:41 I've been really enjoying your stuff and I've been really enjoying Tristan's latest stuff because when you look back and see it as a slave diet, you see that, you know, my big thing is about the spirituality of it. I've got a video about that too, you know, because it really annoys me that meat is not spiritual and it's unsatvic, you know, unholy or whatever in the sort of Ayurvedic terms and you'll never wake up if you have meat and it's It's so disrespectful to other cultures that have always eaten meat, and they've had their great wise gurus and whatever. This business of it being unspiritual, it's funny. It comes from all that religious stuff, and as you're saying and Tristan's saying, there's this whole control issue through history, and there's the whole anti-wanking thing of cornflakes of Kellogg, inventing it to stop people wanking.

[video] 42:39 You're like, look where it came from, the dream of some young girl in the 1800s or whatever, and you look at the roots of this and how absolutely crazy it is, and you can start to unwind it. Maybe, maybe you can, but with that cognitive dissonance and no dopamine, you're just having that, what is it, I forgot, is it Dunning-Kruger effect or something, you know, where You think you're an incredible expert, but you're actually not. And I'm always watching out for that. I'm always now watching out for where I'm being an idiot. If somebody comes along and tells me that I'm a total idiot and there's something I haven't looked into at all, the first thing I'll do is look into it. I'll never not look into it. But I know that it's not going to be going back to veganism. It just isn't. It just hurt too much, man. I mean, if I have to go back to veganism, if I live to 150 years, on veganism. I don't want the agony for those years because it fucking hurts.

[video] 43:39 If I live 10 years and I have the level of health that I have now, I'm playing drums all the time and I can run around and I can go night fishing and I can do what I want, and I still have a fabulous sex life at my age, which a lot of people don't, and mine is going downhill. Mine was going downhill, and now everything works like it did when I was 18. And it's fantastic. I never got completely impotent, but I could tell it was going down. The performance was going down. It just wasn't really quite like it was. And I thought, oh, what's this? And now it's ridiculous, isn't it? You walk around with three legs all the time. It's fantastic. So all of these things, if you can see all this level of health coming up, then there's something about how there's been control from the gurus. Whether the gurus now know it or not, I don't know.

[video] 44:35 You know, I got interviewed two years ago for this wonderful show. I don't know if you've seen it, but it's called Buddha at the Gas Pump. And it's like they interview all these gurus and people are sort of awakened, people who have not had these awakenings or whatever. And I was really honored to be interviewed on that by Rick Archer.

[video] 44:58 I did mention about meat, and I did mention a little bit about it. We didn't talk about it that much. And then I got a load of requests for Skype consultations or whatever. And I was really surprised that some of them were even like spiritual teachers. And they said, I feel like I've lost this awakening I've had. I feel like I'm so sick, and I've got this issue and that issue. And you could just look at them, and you could see there was a certain look where they were very emaciated. and a gray sort of tone to the skin, the teeth are very bad, and the eyes sunken in. And I'd say to them, hey, what are you eating? And they'd be shocked. And I'd say, look, seriously, have a look at what you're eating. The gut's wrecked, the depression's coming in, and they'd say, oh, well, of course, I eat very healthily. I'll have some granola for breakfast, and then I'll have some fruit with that, and then I'll have some

[video] 45:56 I'll have a nice wholemeal bread roll with some vegetable soup at lunch, and then in the evening I'll have some rice and some dhal, and I'm going, man, that's suicide. That's going to destroy the gut. It's absolutely no wonder you feel crazy. And then all these spiritual movements where it's supposed to give you some kind of strength and adaptability, they end up as these precious little snowflakes that can't take a joke, they can't take criticism. They can't enjoy watching an episode of The Walking Dead because they're so bloody delicate. You know what I mean? Just nothing can they do. They can't be out after 9 o'clock at night. They can't do anything. And it was amazing to see that some of them would be horrified when I said, listen, guys, just seriously, just try eating meat. I can't do that. Yeah, fair enough. Okay. And I didn't hear from them again. But some of them did.

[video] 46:51 And the results that you see, and they're coming back, you know, and they're still here and there, and I won't say who they are, because they're still on the group and stuff. But some of them come back, and they're like, and now they're really saying, and they're also saying that since eating meat, they've never had such an appreciation of nature, such a respect for animals, such a deep experience in whatever practice it is that they do, you know, whatever spiritual practice they do. And so, you know, the whole thing is proper bullshit. Layers and layers of it. And seriously, I'm not as outspoken as you, but every time I'm watching you really having a pop at them and really going at it, I'm applauding and I'm in hysterics because I think it's hilarious, man. Carry on. Because it's killing my friends up here, you know? One after the other, they're dropping. And I see it happening. The sooner we can put an end to it and show them that it is just this...

[video] 47:47 It's a diet of the slaves and the people that they want subservient in religious and spiritual movements. And that's where it came from. And that's what they're doing to themselves voluntarily. Insane.

48:01 Yeah, man. Thank you for telling your story.

[video] 48:06 Hey, you're really welcome. It's a pleasure to chat at last. Because, yeah, I had some fun watching your stuff and I'll continue to.

48:15 I'm glad. Yeah.