Tsai Ming-Liang & Lee Kang-Sheng

Watch on YouTube · 2012-06-16 · 28 min

[video] 0:03 Want to find the only one No relief to hear from your love and life Scurry over the world

[video] 0:36 to find the only one

[video] 1:19 Bernardo Bertolucci said that this Taiwanese director, Tsai Ming-yang, reinvented film language. Tsai is influenced by Taiwanese history. In the early 1980s, Taiwan's politics changed a lot. From a senior director who had some money or got some subsidies from the government, he started to make films without stars.

[video] 1:46 We could shoot history, open society, life, and rural literature. We could shoot a very hellish film. Of course, Hou Xiaoxian appeared in the film.

[video] 2:03 Along with Edward Yang, Hu Shaoshan used film to stare intensely at Taiwanese society. This is his movie City of Sadness. It's the late 1940s. An uneasy moment of stasis in Taiwan's turbulent history. Hu captures the stasis by using long static shots. They average more than 40 seconds each.

[video] 2:29 Hu said that holding a long shot has a certain kind of tension.

[video] 2:35 The pleasure and intellectual distinction of Hu's films lies in their rigour. Hu's bold seriousness paved the way for Tsai. I've been a director for ten years. I think... ..that atmosphere makes you want to do what you really want to do. It's not just about dealing with the market.

[video] 3:07 Tsai's second film, Vive l'Amour, is about the loneliness of life in modern cities.

[video] 3:17 This series is also about how modern people, after pursuing material things, have a certain attitude towards emotions, that is, love at first sight, which eventually becomes the whole meaning of the series. I still feel that these people

[video] 3:36 Loneliness and alienation have been

[video] 3:57 consistently present in your works. How did you find that voice right from the beginning? Was there in any way connected to your experience of displacements moving from Malaysia to Taiwan?

[video] 4:16 How should I put it? It has something to do with my childhood. I'm not a very pitiful person. I grew up with my grandparents. My parents were very busy, so they left me to take care of them. But in the middle, I had to separate from them. It was probably from that time that I had some very special experiences related to loneliness. 我記得我因為被爸爸帶回家裡去 所以就轉校 轉學 從一個城市的學校轉到一個比較郊區的學校 小學六年 五年級 然後我轉到那個學校 我到了六年級的時候 不知道為什麼班上有同學不喜歡我 他們要全班的同學不跟我講話 一年

[video] 5:13 But when I think back, I wasn't very uncomfortable. I didn't feel very sad. I felt like I had my own world. I liked reading since I was very young. Of course, I watched a lot of movies. When I couldn't watch movies, I would read. I liked fantasies. My fantasies had something to do with movies. I might have escaped from them.

[video] 5:39 I ran away from my grandfather. That's about it. I would think of very detailed details every day, and I was very touched. That's about it. It's also very strange in my family. Because I grew up with my grandfather and grandmother. So when I go back, I have to face three brothers and sisters. The three of them, as long as I quarrel with anyone, they all don't talk to me.

[video] 6:03 They thought I was one country, so I didn't care. That's how I was when I was young. So when the audience saw me dealing with loneliness, they thought I was very lonely. I think I enjoyed that feeling. I think when you're lonely, you become very real. You can be yourself.

[video] 6:25 I believe you.

[video] 6:29 And the reason is because you have a very humanist way to deal with sadness and alienation. It is always possible to find humor in any situation, and you can be alone and completely in sorrow. And then you have this kind of absurdist humor you find in your films. 我不太刻意去做。

[video] 6:52 funny things. Of course, I also wanted to make a comedy, but I rarely went to play a comedy. He thought it was very interesting. When the event or the details are very close to reality, it becomes very absurd. That's how life is, I often think. It's a bit absurd. When that absurdity comes out, I think it becomes a bit funny.

[video] 7:22 For example, in Taiwan, or in India, film is a place where you can dream. Sometimes you can escape from your dream. I like to watch that kind of film, but when I was making it, I wanted it to be closer to the real world. Then I started to think that the real world is so difficult.

[video] 7:48 What is truth? Do you know why? What is truth in an actor's performance? So when I was filming them, I often gave them some signals, and I felt very regretful about giving them these signals. So I waited for them to act until there were no signals, and I still wouldn't shout, I wouldn't stop, just to see what else they could do. So when I felt that there was a sense of ambiguity,

[video] 8:13 It seems to be a bit more real. So I slowly discovered that the reality of the film is not the reality of reality. The film has another reality. So the world of the film is not the reality of the world. It is managed. This is probably the interesting part of the film. It is really not real. It is more like a dream. If you can interpret life as a dream,

[video] 8:39 it's easier for him to understand this relationship. So I later felt that my later films became more and more free, because I don't feel that my reality is real. My reality is real. I don't really feel that way. I feel that it can be handled with the concept of a dream.

[video] 8:58 Of course, it's still reality. There's a lot of absurdity in it. If you've seen my later films, you'll know that I'm more and more in a state of inner self. I don't really care about the reality of the outside world. So in my film world, there's no computer. It's very illogical.

[video] 9:22 I hope that the audience will be reminded that they are watching a movie. You know, they are sitting in a theater watching a movie. There is a distance. There is an appreciation of the angle and attitude. And they don't need to be so invested. They can also be invested. They can also be abstracted. So, including Yang Guimei's crying, I was thinking at that time, I just want to let you... Actually, that crying is a watching from a distance. She didn't cry with Yang Guimei. She didn't need to. It's a bit like my favorite writer, Blesit.

[video] 9:59 You sit in the theater, you have to remember that you are sitting in the theater. You are watching this work with yourself. So you will not be completely controlled. The audience should not be completely controlled. This is my ideal concept. Actually, I was very surprised when he came to me. Because I was shooting another movie in Vancouver. So when I got a call from them, I thought I would come back. After I came back, I found out that he found a French film company to invest in his movie. But the film was shot in Taiwan. Two-thirds of the film was shot in Taiwan and one-third was shot in Paris.

[video] 10:41 That's why I came to help him. At that time, he was preparing to set up his own film company in Taiwan. So I came down to help. I came to cooperate. I cooperated with Director Tsai because when I was cooperating with him, he had already won a big award for his work. So it turned out that he was actually a big director for us. So I cooperated with him. Actually, it's okay because he himself

[video] 11:08 He was very easy-going. He was always himself. He didn't change. Yes, Director Tsai. Later, in 2004, we worked together again. We also felt that he didn't change much. At that time, our office was downstairs. He lived upstairs. So we were together every day. We were a little closer. Because of the preparation of the movie and the production. I just think that because he is indeed a very smart person.

[video] 11:37 It's like I said, this film is his life. For example, the actor Kang is his life. He used this attitude of his life to portray the film he created. I think this spirit is great. And I think he really...

[video] 11:56 I remember he would go to the vegetable market every night to buy vegetables. Because we were all in the office, he would cook for us in the evening. He would cook for us in the evening. Because there were five or six people in the film crew. So he would say, Rufin, don't go. I want to cook. And he would cook. But he was very funny. When he woke up in the morning, he loved to clean. He would sweep the floor. He would sweep the floor in the office. He would take a broom and sweep the floor from the yard to the office. He would sweep the floor and do what? He will ask about the script. His script is in his mind. Because when you work with him, it's hard to guess what the story is. Because he always has a few words in a blank. Like, Xiao Kang went to the bathroom. Or something like that. It's always a script like that. So it's not called a script. For me, I said, Director, how do I get the budget?

[video] 12:43 You can only talk about the whole concept. I can only judge the budget myself. Because you can't judge. I don't even know how many scenes there are. Because sometimes you say that he went to buy duck meat. Mom went out to buy roast duck. Because who goes out to do what? Or what is he doing in the room? But I can't judge this thing. So it becomes that it can only be a conclusion. You have to know his one when you cooperate with him. And when he was talking about the script, sometimes he talked about it.

[video] 13:10 When he was cooking or sweeping the floor, he would say, Lu-Fei, let me tell you, I think Lu-Jie is going to buy some food for you. He would say that. So you have to be able to catch up with him. You tell him, yes, director, I know. Because he was the one with the black and white paper. You have to remember when you look at it. You probably know what he meant. So when you talk to him, sometimes he would suddenly appear in the state of creating the script. When he was cooking, he was also in the state of making the script. When he was sweeping the floor, he was also in the state of making the script.

[video] 13:37 I think he is an artist. He has actually surpassed the film industry itself. So when you look at the design of his painting, it is very much like a static painting.

[video] 13:52 It's just that he connected the static images. That's how I feel. Because when it comes to art and the location of photography, for example, when we were doing the film, There's a scene in Xiangqi's house. There's a shot of the camera from a different angle. And then on both sides, Here, Kang secretly pours watermelon juice. Here, he's cutting the watermelon and frying it. I think he used this thing. He placed the camera in his place because I was there. So I think he knows what space he wants. Including digging the ground and the key. He went to dig the key and the ground suddenly cracked and the water came out. I think he has a lot of隱喻. But that's his creativity. I think this is the spirit of the director that I saw in the two films that I worked with him.

[video] 14:38 It's a bit different. And I worked with him. When we were shooting in France, it was quite interesting. Because everyone respects Tsai Ming-yao. So when we went to a French coffee shop to drink coffee, if they said Tsai Ming-yao was a worker, our coffee was free.

[video] 14:53 So I would say, well, this is quite useful. So it's quite interesting. Sometimes you will feel that a director in such a state is respected and respected in France. I think it's also a very special thing. And although he is a Malaysian, but his background, the whole creation of the film is in Taiwan.

[video] 15:15 But if you think about it, he used to write a series of soap operas, such as Minnan Yu, and Xiao Tao Fan. I think he knows business very well. His business is not in Taiwan. His business is abroad. Maybe in Europe. So I think he is still a... Actually, he is not a director. He is a business director. Just like I said, business is in Europe. We should look at the director from this perspective.

[video] 15:43 you will know the value of her life. Thank you. A lot of your films, actually pretty much all of them are not narrative based. They are usually made up of a lot of scenarios composed mostly with static camera and employing very long takes with very little dialogue. What do you actually put in your screenplays?

[video] 16:08 And how do you describe to your actors and people involved in the filmmaking what you're trying to do? 怎麼講就是說我覺得最沒有劇情的可能是臉吧 只是一些小事件的一個組合 但基本上呢

[video] 16:29 It still has a very complete structure. I have to think about it. I studied Western theater. I studied Western theater in college. I watched a lot of Shakespeare, Ibuson, or Brescian. These plays. I really like these classical theater literature. But I did think about it.

[video] 16:57 我操作的一個媒介 不是電影 不是戲劇 是電影 這是我非常深入思考的一個課題

[video] 17:11 Of course, I myself am also a movie fan. I have seen so many narrative movies, movies with a dramatic structure. Some of them are great, great. I also like them very much. But when I was making movies, I was thinking about how to

[video] 17:32 If I am also making a film like this, a film that is close to a drama, with plot and acting, how can I put it? I feel that it is similar to what everyone else is doing. I feel that everyone knows what kind of power will be generated, so that power can only reach a certain level. It is very difficult to push it forward.

[video] 18:01 I also had a great training process in the middle. I filmed a lot of TV dramas. I filmed a lot of TV dramas. I filmed a lot of TV dramas. I filmed a lot of TV dramas. I filmed a lot of TV dramas. I filmed a lot of TV dramas. I filmed a lot of TV dramas. I filmed a lot of TV dramas. I filmed a lot of TV dramas.

[video] 18:29 For example, if I want to film a housewife, we will write the script, her story, her love, her life.

[video] 18:44 It's a very normal way of expression, with a dramatic structure. The audience will definitely understand and feel it if you shoot it well. But before shooting, I was very confused. Why do I always use this method to tell a story? I must use this method to tell a female character's story.

[video] 19:07 It seems that the theme is everything. In order to express the theme, you put in a lot of effort. But can you really express the situation of female workers? I think sometimes you have to think about it.

[video] 19:22 我有一個經驗 我真的就跑到紡織廠去看女工 然後有一次 剛好看到她們中午吃飯的時候 放飯的時候 有一千個女工 一個鈴聲響的時候 一千個女工從走廊就出現了 她們要走 大概走五分鐘的走廊 很長的走廊 走進一個很大的食堂

[video] 19:43 They would sit down to eat and line up to eat. The whole process took less than 20 minutes. Suddenly, the restaurant was empty again. This scene was very shocking to me. I thought, oh, this is the situation of female workers eating. When I wrote the script, I started to write very simply. The more I wrote, the simpler it became. I felt that I didn't need to describe the details, because I didn't know. I didn't know, I couldn't imagine. I had to see.

[video] 20:17 But I probably know what I want to do. In the process of directing, I mostly think about my structure. What kind of structure is my structure? This structure probably took me a year to think about. The form. What form should I use to express? This process is very long. So every time my script is very thin. It won't have lines.

[video] 20:40 There are only some simple actions of the actors. That's about it. But the main point is the structure. This structure has become a part of my work. My co-workers know how to use this book to work, to find scenes, to find money.

[video] 21:02 The actors probably only got this script. They didn't know what it was about. They didn't know what they were going to do. For me, a script is not a movie. It keeps developing. It keeps happening. It keeps changing when it's being shot. That's my opinion.

[video] 21:24 我必須要承認從我寫劇本到我拍完電影 我都是處在一個焦慮的狀態裡面 因為都不是很確定

[video] 21:34 Okay, Lee Kang Shin, we have seen you live the life of Xiao Kang for many, many years. We've seen you watch television, cook, go to the bathroom, and stare into deep space. What kind of instruction do you get from Chai Ming Yang on the set? It actually has a very complete structure. Although it only gives us a story outline,

[video] 22:07 There may be a lot of meaning behind it. So those are just some instructions or actions. Although, for example, going to the toilet or drinking water, there are many ways to complete this action. The rest depends on how you walk this path and how you complete this action to make this action more interesting and lively.

[video] 22:42 Because he wasn't born in the class of science. He was born on the street. He didn't have the concept of acting. He just did what he did. Let him relax in front of the camera and do what he did. In the film, the actor can show...

[video] 23:05 It's a very precious thing not to perform. It's very, very difficult for him not to perform. But the audience will wonder why he didn't perform. I think this is a pity. The audience can't see this kind of preciousness. Let's put it simply. You take a photo, and when the camera is facing you, you must smile. You must smile. If you don't smile, you can't do it. I think this is very... So everyone thinks that we must look like that in front of the camera.

[video] 23:34 My performance speed is slower than normal people. When I was shooting the first TV series, the director regretted it after three days. Because I may even turn my head slower than others.

[video] 23:57 At that time, the director taught me how to turn and how to turn. Then he taught me to be more natural and relaxed. But I still turned slowly. Then he got angry and asked me if I could be more natural. Then I was really in a hurry. The more I turned, the less natural I was.

[video] 24:22 Later, I told him that I was so slow. Slow is my nature. Later, he understood that there are many kinds of acting. It's not that there are many kinds of acting, but there are many kinds of people. You introduced Lee Kang-shin to the world of cinema, but did he actually change the way you make films? I think there are two levels to it. The first one is the one that made me go head-to-head with it. I said that we are all selfish in every aspect. We are selfish when it comes to scriptwriting, and we are selfish when it comes to the concept of performance. Performance requires strength. It seems that the director has to be clear about these concepts. But at that time, I suddenly felt that this actor is himself in front of me, but he does not meet our habits and standards.

[video] 25:21 I think it's time for me to think about this issue.

[video] 25:31 I want to say that because of Lee Kang-sheng, I started to put myself more broadly. I don't say that I must do something. I think it depends on the actor. How to bring out the natural part of him. I think this becomes an important thing for me. On the second level,

[video] 25:50 I didn't intend to film Li Kang-sheng at the beginning. I didn't think so. It seemed like fate brought us together. After he finished his first film, After he finished his first film, After he finished his first film, he had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. He had a strange illness. a teenager called Nozha. Because there are two words Nozha. Nozha is a god. It seems to have offended him. So I accompanied him to see a doctor. I accompanied him for nine months. I think our relationship has become very intimate. Then I also saw an uncontrollable state of the body during the treatment. The fragile feeling of the body. I suddenly felt that this is a great topic that I should pay attention to. There were a lot of things that happened between us.

[video] 26:48 In the end, I realized that I wasn't able to move my camera away from his face. Watching his face was a great pleasure for me.

[video] 27:01 We showed Chai Ming-nan's new film, Face, and Lee Kang-shen's actor in that film as well. And Chai Ming-nan talked about using the legendary French actor Jean-Pierre Laud in the film. And he started acting when he was 14 years old in 400 Blows. And Chai Ming-nan talked about how important it was for him to capture that aging face, or aged face. And I'm wondering whether Chai Ming-nan is actually waiting for that moment for Lee Kang-shen.

[video] 27:36 Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that.

[video] 28:04 But I want to say one thing. I think it's also because of Lee Kang-sheng, the actor, that I slowly found the meaning of making films. You finally have a chance to take a closer look at a very subtle change in a face. Because of time, it changes very subtly.

[video] 28:31 And this change is, how to put it, it's not a return. It is, how to put it, the truth of life. It's constantly revealing the truth of life. So I think filming Lee Kang-sheng is a very happy thing. Without this face, I probably wouldn't be filming.